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April 27, 2010
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turtlelady81:
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@gooddogz is teaching a class in Portland, Maine...she'll be with us in just a moment.. #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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While we're waiting, let's talk tricks! What's your dog's fav. trick? #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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My favorite focus trick was "touch" or "target." Keeps dogs paying attention. #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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@turtlelady81 Whichever one gets him food the fastest? ;-
#barkoutloud |
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PuppyJonesLove:
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@turtlelady81 ZuZu's fav trick is anything with a ball! Hampton likes balancing bottle caps on his nose! #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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I taught my dog client to go in a circle today! #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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A great trick book is 101 Dog Tricks, by Kyra Sundance and Chalcy. Nice photos, easy to follow. Any other good books or DVDs? #barkoutloud |
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peggyfrezon:
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@turtlelady81 My spaniel's fav trick is perching on very narrow ledges like a cat, even though she's not small! #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@DaisyWunderDog
How'd ya do that? #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@DaisyWunderDog You mean spin, or a larger circle? #barkoutloud |
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PuppyJonesLove:
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@turtlelady81 recently taught hampton to jump through my arms shaped in a hoop! #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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#barkoutloud my fav is "kiss", not licking, but kissing. So simple, but cute, and my fav. Suzy targets my puckered lips w/her muzzle. Love it! |
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ComfyPaws:
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@turtlelady81 I'd like to teach her to scoop ... #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@peggyfrezon Did you teach your spaniel to perch, or does she just like it? #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@PuppyJonesLove That is great! How's you teach that? #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@FangShuiCanines Small circle (I guess a spin) #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@jodituckett My dog also targets her kissing! He thinks there's food there! #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@ComfyPaws Scoop? Scoop what? #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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You have to be careful with spins sometimes. Some dogs are really predisposed to it and can almost become an OCD thing. #barkoutloud |
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PuppyJonesLove:
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CUTE! RT @jodituckett #barkoutloud my fav is "kiss", not licking, but kissing. So simple, but cute... |
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peggyfrezon:
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@FangShuiCanines She just likes to do it. And on the top/back of the couch too! #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@dogloversdigest I actually worried about that. #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@dogloversdigest Interesting... never thought of that! #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@peggyfrezon Great balance! Hope she doesn't jump on the roof! #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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best trick = giving high 5 #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@DaisyWunderDog What kind of dog? #barkoutloud |
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PuppyJonesLove:
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@turtlelady81 1st time brought my arms close to him in hoop shape, pushed my arms under his feet...and then he got it (with treats) #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@turtlelady81 @dogloversdigest That OCD thing is problematic. If you teach your dog to spin, maybe you can teach a stop? #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@gooddogz Awesome! We're talking about tricks we've taught. Ready for a ? #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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Q1: What is shaping? #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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Q1`Shaping teaches dogs how to think! We break behaviors down and reward successful approximations to achieve result.
#barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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Taught spin to my Aussie Gavin in 5 minutes. Started extinguishing the next day and took three months to do it. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@ComfyPaws My brother's golden gives high 5's too. Very cute #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@LorieAHuston Janie, too. #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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@FangShuiCanines def my fav. I like targeting w/noses & paws. Can use it for so many things! #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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@LorieAHuston fun,eh? the GSP does 'em on the fly (does everything on the fly!) #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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Okay... on task for questions now... #barkoutloud |
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kindcutesteve:
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Goldens easily give high 5's; my dog does when I give her a treat #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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But what is shaping, exactly? What does it mean? #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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@kindcutesteve the GSP does it on hand signal #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@gooddogz A1--can you explain more about shaping? Example? #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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Shaping is really about engaging the dog and teach them that they can impact their own environment through what they learn. #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@gooddogz Q2--the question is, How do I use shaping to teach tricks? I think you answered it--just want to be clear! #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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Q2 There r 2 types of shaping
In the 1st,we lure or prompt the dog and in the second, Free shaping, we wait for the dog to offer.
#barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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I use both forms of shaping #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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Remember NO LUMPNG>!1 do not wait for end result to reward dog. Lots of rewards along the way. Like playing hot and cold #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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#barkoutloud A1 can you give an ex of simple behav created through shaping? |
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tacrabtree:
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@gooddogz - in free shaping are you using any hand signals or verbal commands? #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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So shaping is either luring or recogizing/treating a behav. #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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#barkoutloud A2 I struggle w/concept of free shaping/how to use it to create behavs in real life circumstances |
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gooddogz:
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@tacrabtree Good question!! Depends who you ask! I use lures and hand signals, targeting and target sticks #barkoutloud |
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kimhalligan1:
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I like the idea of free shaping but will use lures also #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@jodituckett a GREAT thing to free shape would be to go to your mat-same way we teach agility pause table #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@peggyfrezon not quite, it is breaking down the behaviors into teeny steps and rewarding each one to make a behavior chain #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@gooddogz - that's what I understand it to be also #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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A2: Like that. RT @gooddogz @jodituckett GR8 thing to free shape=go to your mat-same way we teach agility pause table #barkoutloud #barkoutloud |
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bglemommy:
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Marci luvs to kiss! :) RT @PuppyJonesLove CUTE! RT @jodituckett #barkoutloud my fav is "kiss", not licking, but kissing. So simple, but cute... |
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gooddogz:
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it can start by the dog looking away, or jsut looking in the direction you want #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@gooddogz Like treating dog for looking away from another dog to u instead of barking? #barkoutloud |
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PuppyJonesLove:
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Cool! I actually used shaping and didn't know it! (e.g. for my arm hoop trick with hampton) #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud I think of shaping slightly differently, and wouldn't consider luring part of "shaping" |
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dogloversdigest:
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2 learn to shape. Get a bunch of friends some cue cards w behaviors, and try to teach each other by click only. Fun way 2 learn. #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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#barkoutloud Q2 so it's capturing behavs that dog does already (going to mat)? Ie knowing she's already going there, I capture that? |
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gooddogz:
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Like I said, I use both. I think dogs need a lot of information. Have you ever tried to clicker train a human? #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud for me, shaping is teaching a dog to "follow" a marker signal. |
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gooddogz:
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@dogloversdigest we are on the same page! #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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A2: Pls, more info! RT @wholedogcamp I think of shaping slightly differently, and wouldn't consider luring part of "shaping" #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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RT @wholedogcamp: #barkoutloud for me, shaping is teaching a dog to "follow" a marker signal. <huh? #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud it's easier to post a video clip of how it works, but the idea is that the human doesn't need to move at all |
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dogloversdigest:
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@gooddogz Great parlor game. :)
#barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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I have dog afraid of the clicker so I can't ever use it #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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I HAVE tried to clicker train a human-part of obedience training experience at shelter - an eye-opener #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@tacrabtree U can try to muffle it, or use a differnt marker (that is another question) #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud the problem with luring is dogs become reliant on that, which can interfere with their response to a marker signal |
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ComfyPaws:
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@tacrabtree I tried clicker training years ago - kept losing the dang thing #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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A2: What's a marker signal? Clicker? RT @wholedogcamp: for me, shaping is teaching a dog to "follow" a marker signal. #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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@tacrabtree Have you tried something softer like a ball point pen? #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@wholedogcamp did you come in late? I started with free shaping #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@wholedogcamp I think we want to keep on topic here, but thanks for your input. #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud @Gooddogz a reinforcement marker signal is typically a "click" |
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turtlelady81:
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So, sounds like a diff. of opinion on luring. It works for some, not for others. #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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#barkoutloud clicker training a human = "the training game". It is grt to do 1st day of puppy kindy |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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Yes! RT @jodituckett: #barkoutloud clicker training a human = "the training game". It is grt to do 1st day of puppy kindy #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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Shall we go to Q3? What is a good first trick to teach my dog? #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@dogloversdigest - yes, no sounds, he spooks, but "yes" w/or w/o treat works just fine on both of them #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@wholedogcamp Yasi is right, hard to get away from luring unless you do it right away. The 3 lure rule works. No luring after 3x #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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Anything that has been classically conditioned to be a marker that means you've earned a treat is a marker signal. #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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@tacrabtree you might try making a soft kissing sound with your lips rather than clicker - works for my dogs #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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@Gooddogz @DaisyWunderDog #barkoutloud topic isn't "What is shaping?" Shaping builds behavior by "marking" increments for reinforcement |
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dogloversdigest:
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Luring can work for some harder to start dogs but luring should be faded promptly. My 2 cents. :) #barkoutloud |
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DREAMRescue:
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#barkoutloud A1-2 can you talk more about luring? |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud though luring can also shape behavior! But "luring" and "shaping" are two different training strategies, as I understand it |
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turtlelady81:
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@DREAMRescue We just talked abt luring, but we talk more about it later on... #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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re-lure-- you can shape with luring, but it is not "purist clicker training
#barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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Like I said earlier, free shaping involves letting the dog figure it out with STATIONARY help from us #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@gooddogz Sometimes you can't be purist? Re: luring.. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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with free shpaing, we don't move a whole lot--but you can give a lot of info in your rewards--where you toss them #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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Maybe we could discuss luring at the Q&A session after the "formal" chat? Would that work? #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@wholedogcamp post the link to your video por favor! #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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Often once a dog gets started on shaping luring is not an issue because they've learned the game & start throwing behaviors at u. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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Everyone in my classes learns spin. very easy trick. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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q3 behaviors that your dog does on it's own are easy to put on cue with capturing #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@gooddogz How do ya teach it? spin? #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@gooddogz once around? #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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Love that one! RT @gooddogz: Everyone in my classes learns spin. very easy trick. #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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@Gooddogz #barkoutloud A3 do you use lures for that? |
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gooddogz:
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@dogloversdigest I suffer from a behavior thrower. It was all my fault! #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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RT @jodituckett: @Gooddogz #barkoutloud A3 do you use lures for that? *Good question!* #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@jodituckett I lure and then reward with the other hand (spin) to wean from a lure in less than 3 x. I also use a hand target #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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re-spin for some dogs I use a target stick #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Q4. Are there breeds of dogs for whom learning tricks is easier? #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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what is target stick, anything special, or just any stick? RT @gooddogz: re-spin for some dogs I use a target stick #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@tacrabtree check the google for target sticks, but you can make one with a stick with something at the end #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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A4 I've noticed some breeds are quicker learners (maybe just less stuborn than Ridgebacks) #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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re target stick. i use an old curtain rod and radio antenee with a small ball at the end #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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When trying to shape a new behavior make sure you have a bag full of high value treats to start. :-) #barkoutloud |
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danielbeattydvm:
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I could answer but I would be biased...lol RT @LorieAHuston: Q4. Are there breeds of dogs for whom learning tricks is easier? #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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Would u post a pic later? RT @gooddogz re target stick. i use an old curtain rod and radio antenee with a small ball at the end #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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I am biased. Shelties are easy learners. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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Q4 dogs who were bred to have a job/higher drive tend to learn tricks quicker, but any dog can learn (herding dogs) #barkoutloud |
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danielbeattydvm:
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I'm such a breedist #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@danielbeattydvm I think you should weigh in, biased or not. Which breed do you think learning is easier? #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@ComfyPaws Ridgebacks are a bit stubborn for learning behaviours? #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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LOL! RT @danielbeattydvm: Im such a breedist #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@danielbeattydvm I am biased to, what breeds? #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud shaping doesn't need to have a "click" but it calls upon an operant response which is different than luring |
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dogloversdigest:
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I find that chow hounds tend to learn faster :-) #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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a local trainer told me "anyone can train a Golden ... #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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I think this really extends to mutts. I've two of them... both motivated to learn. #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@kindcutesteve Is this true, since you've trained them? RT @ComfyPaws a local trainer told me "anyone can train a Golden #barkoutloud |
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DREAMRescue:
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A4 Not dachshunds! RT Are there breeds of dogs for whom learning tricks is easier? #barkoutloud |
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danielbeattydvm:
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Border Collie for sure! Is there any other breed? :-) #barkoutloud |
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Keeping_Awake:
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Would think certain tricks may be easier if they jive with breed job, size, etc. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@ComfyPaws I think the saying is "anyone can train an easy dog", but not all goldens are easy #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@dogloversdigest I'm totally with you on that... #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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@turtlelady81 Ridgebacks can be difficult because they're not always motivated by food #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@danielbeattydvm Wow! You ARE a breedist! Hhehehe #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@danielbeattydvm - labs & goldens! #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud now it says "thirteen minutes remaining" sigh I don't get it! It's only a two minute clip! |
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FangShuiCanines:
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A4: I have Border Collies, so training wasn't too hard--but they go through their
repertoire when they want something. #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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I think dogs that are eager to please can be quick learners too. #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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@gooddogz well, she specified Goldens and was comparing to Ridgebacks (after she had trained her first) #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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Mutts. One has been super easy to train! She'll do anything for me if there's hugs and food involved. #barkoutloud |
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fearfuldogs:
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I use a wooden dowel w duct tape marking the end 4 target stick #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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Absolutely not! A4: RT @danielbeattydvm Border Collie for sure! Is there any other breed? :-) #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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That makes sense. RT @DaisyWunderDog: I think dogs that are eager to please can be quick learners too. #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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easiest dog I trained was a GSP #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud "shaping" is called that because of the way the dog is "creating" the behavior himself |
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dogloversdigest:
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I find most of the herding breeds very easy to train but they are also demanding. They need to be kept busy and engaged. #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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OMD my hound has this in him! RT @turtlelady81: @ComfyPaws Ridgebacks are a bit stubborn for learning behaviours? #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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#barkoutloud If your dog is "mouthy", more inclined to tricks involving carrying things in mouth. Dog that"paws" a lot will be good at targeting |
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FangShuiCanines:
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Eager to get what they want! RT @LorieAHuston: That makes sense. RT @DaisyWunderDog: ...dogs eager to please can b quick learners. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@comfyPaws we dont use the word stubborn that much anymore. Just say we have not found the dog's motivation! #barkoutloud |
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fearfuldogs:
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I also think it depends on your definition of what a trick is #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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Yes! RT @dogloversdigest: ...herding breeds very easy to train but they are also demanding. They need to be kept busy and engaged. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@fearfuldogs I had 4 families ask me this week how to train "get a beer" #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud terminology is often used differently by different dog clubs |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@gooddogz Beer? LOL! #barkoutloud |
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DogHouseK9Coach:
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I agree... my aussie x learns very fast if you can keep his attention long enough to teach him lol #barkoutloud |
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lookwhatlabs:
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eager to please or behavior is working for the dog? #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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U all know to teach the end behavior and make it strong right? #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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So give the beer would be a priority #barkoutloud |
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lookwhatlabs:
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@jodituckett that makes sense #barkoutloud |
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FangShuiCanines:
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A4: That's what I think--don't know about anyone else! RT @lookwhatlabs eager to please or behavior is working for the dog? #barkoutloud |
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ComfyPaws:
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@gooddogz Ridgebacks are actually very bright and stubborn - like some other hound breeds #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@ComfyPaws or maybe they just their own adgenda? #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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That is why dog IQ tests are bogus. Can't really compare what dogs were bred to do #barkoutloud |
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fearfuldogs:
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@Gooddogz good backchaining trick if they r inclined! #barkoutloud & thirsty |
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FangShuiCanines:
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@gooddogz How about Q5: Can I be working on more than one trick at a time? Will it confuse my dog? #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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@ComfyPaws I would disagree with the word stubborn. They come with their own type of wiring not ours. :-) #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@gooddogz @ComfyPaws That's what I've noticed... one of my pups just has a diff agenda than me... #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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Q5 yes only u can confuse your dog. Have a clear idea of what you want and be ready to reward about that.
#barkoutloud |
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DogHouseK9Coach:
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My yorkie was actually incredibly motivated and easy to train... anyone else have yorkie/small breed experiences? #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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#barkoutloud I like the iq tests that allow dogs to use problem solving skills. They aren't useful for much else though! |
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hayhillo:
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#barkoutloud fyi RT @DavidDogTrainer A quick and fun overview of LURE REWARD #dogtraining (VIDEO): http://ow.ly/1Dr7U |
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LorieAHuston:
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Q6. Can I teach my dog a few tricks if I don't have any knowledge of clicker training? #barkoutloud |
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Keeping_Awake:
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@DogHouseK9Coach Many of the terriers are very quick studies, yes. #barkoutloud |
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jodituckett:
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#barkoutloud have clnt w/11wk pup. Figured out to put rawhide(ew) in h2o to make it soft They took it out, pup put it back! Now that's problem s |
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turtlelady81:
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@Keeping_Awake My terrier mix is an extreme quick study... but she's got her own agenda... #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud this was already posted on my blog http://jennyruthyasi.blogspot.com/2009/10/video-tape-of-belly-shaping-session.html |
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hayhillo:
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@turtlelady81 #barkoutloud mixed breeds IMO have an upper hand of course exceptions to every rule |
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Keeping_Awake:
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@turtlelady81 The persistence and focus in a terrier can be frustrating when that focus is not on you! LOL #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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@Keeping_Awake I love you. Thx for declaring that! #barkoutloud |
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dogloversdigest:
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@Keeping_Awake Boy am I learning that. :) #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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Q6 Sure, use a marker - like "yes"
See my article on how to teach that here http://gooddogztraining.com/trainingarticles.html
#barkoutloud |
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DogHouseK9Coach:
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@Keeping_Awake as long as i have his mini tennis ball he's focused haha #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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#barkoutloud here's that same shaping game in new
environment http://www.youtube.com/user/yasijenny#p/a/u/0/9A_HxNg37C8 |
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fearfuldogs:
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Tricks r gr8 4 giving shy dogs something 2 focus on besides what's worrying them #barkoutloud |
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turtlelady81:
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Okay ya'll! It's time to officially end this chat for the night! #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Thank you, @Gooddogz , for joining us. Fantastic chat, even with technical difficulties #barkoutloud |
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wholedogcamp:
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@FangShuiCanines @LoriAHuston #barkoutloud you don't need to click to shape. It's really about communication though |
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turtlelady81:
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We'd like to say thanks to our guest @gooddogz. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Thank you all for coming and for participating tonight. Hope you all enjoyed the chat with @Gooddogz. #barkoutloud |