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August 9, 2010
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Mod_Lorie:
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We are pleased to have Dr. Patrick Mahaney, aka @PatrickMahaney, as our guest tonite. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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Patrick's veterinary practice is California Pet Acupuncture and Wellness (CPAW), Inc. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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You can find him online at http://patrickmahaney.com #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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Ready to start? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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OK, Q1. What exactly is multi-modal pain management? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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We are going to call Multimodal Pain Management MMPM for short! OK! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A1a MMPM utilizes more than one technique to reduce a patient?s pain #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A1b MMPM strives to reduce reliance on pain relieving medications (opioids, NSAIDs, steroids, etc) that have adverse side effects #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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MMPM=Multimodal Pain Management #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A1c Opioid side effect include sedation, ataxia (unsteadiness), reduced respiratory rate, constipation, etc #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A1d NSAIDs side effects include gastrointestinal inflammation, kidney damage, delayed blood coagulation, etc #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A1e Steroid side effects include increased H20 consumption/urination/appetite, liver inflammation, immunosuppression, etc #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A1f See our #barkoutloud from 2 weeks ago ?East Meets West: Integrative Veterinary Medicine" http://bit.ly/9HYmAE #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney after all Jasmine has been through and had - no pain meds here #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@DawgBlogger That is so awesome! I love to hear success stories of reducing reliance on pain meds with MMPM #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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Jasmine has a pretty amazing story. RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney after all Jasmine has been through and had - no pain meds here #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Q2. What are the different options for pain management and how do they work together?
#barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney yeah! we used stem cells, acupuncture, hydrotherapy, using supplements, that's all #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@DawgBlogger Can #barkoutloud viewers read about Jasmine somewhere on-line? |
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DawgBlogger:
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Bilateral knee surgery, arthritis knees, shoulders, neck, jaws ... other stuff, and yet no pain meds needed #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A2a Options for MMPM include NSAIDs, opioids, joint supplements, omega 3 fatty acids, acupuncture, chiropractic, weight loss, etc #barkoutloud |
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boulderdog1:
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stem cells? Are we going to talk about this? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney some of the stuff on my blog, full story on Lories #barkoutloud |
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petxpert:
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@PatrickMahaney Do you believe there's a place for the more traditional options for pain management? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A2b NSAIDs (Rimadyl, Metacam, Deramaxx) are Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory drugs that reduce inflammation, thereby reducing pain #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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Jasmine's story here http://bit.ly/cstEUn #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Not in this chat, but on Lorie's & DawgBlogger's blogs! RT @boulderdog1: stem cells? Are we going to talk about this? #barkoutloud |
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boulderdog1:
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@DawgBlogger thanks #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@petxpert Absolutely! As a result of my clinical practice, I don't believe that traditional options (pain meds) are the ONLY way #barkoutloud |
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petxpert:
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@DawgBlogger Thanks for the url. #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A2c Opioids (Tramadol, Fentanyl, etc) block the sensation of pain at the neurotransmitter #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A3d Joint supplements (Dasuquin, Adequan, other) improve joint fluid/surface health and can reduce inflammation #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@DawgBlogger With Oliver's ACL injury/recovery... no NSAIDS...Omega 3s, hydrotherapy, vit. C, tramadol.
#barkoutloud |
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FlexPet:
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@patrickmahaney Is it good 2 combine natural supplement with the right diet and exercise. Effective combo. #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@PatrickMahaney - can you give a large dog Advil? #barkoutloud |
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petxpert:
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@PatrickMahaney Thank you for clarification. As a journalist I'm always asking questions. ;-) #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@DawgBlogger Amazing for Jasmine (and good for her caretakers too!) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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But lots of good nutrition leading up to surgery #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney we are very happy for her, it was two years of horror #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@tacrabtree NO! No people Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatories (NSAIDs) for dogs. Use those made for dogs only! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A2e Omega 3 fatty acids (fish, flax, and other oils) have anti-inflammatory effects on joints at appropriately high quantities #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney cannot have NSAIDs, almost died to Previcox also #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A2f Acupuncture promotes local pain relief and release of pain relieving hormones along with having a calming effect #barkoutloud |
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PushUpsnPaws:
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Whhops still on question 1 - Mom calls is travelling lameness - u fix one part only to find another sore #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Also Adequan injections #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@tacrabtree Advil is not researched to be effective in dogs. #Vet pharm companies put extensive research into med develpmnt #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@PatrickMahaney - didn't know that is what Advil was, thanks for that clarification! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A2g Chiropractic realigns joints, vertebra, and other body tissues into healthful anatomic position #barkoutloud |
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boulderdog1:
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@PatrickMahaney How much is enough omega3 to have anti-inflamm effect?
#barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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yes, used those also RT @Mod_Mary: Also Adequan injections, #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@DawgBlogger 1000 mg per 10-15 lbs of body weight? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@PushUpsnPaws That certainly happens. When one part of body is injured, other parts will compensate and can become injured #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Mary Jasmine is on 3000 mg per 100 pounds #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@DawgBlogger Yay for Adequan! The best stuff out there to fix joints! I inject it at acupuncture points! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A2h Weight loss puts less stress on the joints, ligaments, tendons, and muscles #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@PatrickMahaney is that why ACL often occurs in other leg? Compensation? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Always or sometimes? RT @PatrickMahaney: @PushUpsnPaws When one part of body is injured, other parts compensate &can become injured #barkoutloud |
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FlexPet:
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Grt question. RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney is that why ACL often occurs in other leg? Compensation? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@PatrickMahaney Is Adequan more effective at acupuncture points than given IM or SQ? #barkoutloud |
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FlexPet4Shelter:
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Super important!!! RT @PatrickMahaney: A2h Weight loss puts less stress on the joints, ligaments, tendons, and muscles #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@boulderdog1 For anti-inflammatory effect on the musculoskeletal system (joints), give 180mg/5kg per 24 hrs. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@DawgBlogger So that sounds like 1 cap. per 30 lbs? #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#AlwaysAskVet #NoAdvilTylenolNuprin MT @PatrickMahaney: @tacrabtree NO! No people NSAIDs for dogs. Use those made for dogs only! #Bark Out Loud |
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tacrabtree:
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RT @Mod_Mary: @DawgBlogger 1000 mg per 10-15 lbs of body weight? #barkoutloud |
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fearfuldogs:
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Any1 familiar w system saver herb mix? Using 4 joint inflammation 4 my dog #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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Jerry had a wort on a foot, messed his whole leg and side compensating for that #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@tacrabtree That's what we do... #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@oprahdiet Absolutely right to combine supplements with healthful diet, safe exercise, weight loss, physical therapy, etc #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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when something not used right, other things always suffer #barkoutloud |
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petxpert:
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@Mod_Lorie Glad you asked. I was just about to about injecting at acupuncture sites. #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@tacrabtree gotta watch balance between omega 6 and omega 3 #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@Mod_Mary - thanks #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@fearfuldogs Can you provide us web link for "System Saver Herb Mix" Thx #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Ready for Q3 Patrick? #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@DawgBlogger - how do you do that? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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With Oliver's ACL injury we built a 16 X 8 X 4 hydrotherapy pool in the backyard... #barkoutloud |
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PushUpsnPaws:
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@Mod_Hilary @PatrickMahaney Just like human _ if you limp or favor one side of your body you will throw the other side out of whack #barkoutloud |
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dino_dogan:
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I feel so lucky I never had to deal with these issues, guys. Im so happily ignorant when it comes to this stuff. #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@tacrabtree we used a nutritionist, to calculate the balance given Jasmine's condition #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#HasAnyoneTried #CruciateBrace? http://www.woundwear.com/product3.cfm #Bark Out Loud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@tacrabtree our TCVM and holistic vets are also able to calculate #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@Mod_Mary Adequan is labeled for IM use and it is better absorbed from the muscle vs subcutaneous fat. #barkoutloud Yet..... |
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Mod_Mary:
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@tacrabtree Toss those capsules right in... #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@dino_dogan you ARE lucky #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@SuSiempre We looked into that... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@PatrickMahaney Sorry, but what is IM use? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@Mod_Mary Yet.....many feline practitioners will give it subcutaneously to cats, as they don't tolerate IM injections as well #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@dino_dogan Lucky you. count your blessings. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Mod_Hilary IM=intramuscular SQ or SC=under the skin (subcutaneous) #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@SuSiempre I have not used it, but I like the concept. Anyone doing phys tx out there that have used it? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Q3. Are these options best used for short term pain or for chronic pain? Or both?
#barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Thank you! RT @Mod_Lorie: @Mod_Hilary IM=intramuscular SQ or SC=under the skin (subcutaneous) @turtlelady81 also #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Thx for clarification for #barkoutloud pepps! RT @Mod_Lorie: @Mod_Hilary IM=intramuscular SQ or SC=under the skin (subcutaneous) #barkoutloud :) |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney phys tx? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Thanks! We need cheat sheet! RT @SuSiempre: @Mod_Hilary IM=Intra Muscular #IfISpelledThatRight SQ=SubCutaneous (Under the Skin) #barkoutloud |
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dino_dogan:
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SC= subcutaneous (under the skin) yay me..I actually know stuff lol #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Phys Tx= Physical Therapy. vet speak. Sorry! RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney phys tx? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A3a I use MMPM to manage both acute and chronic pain #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney yes, we used physical therapy for Jasmine's muscle injury #barkoutloud |
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Farfbaz:
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do you have any info on effects of long term use of Gabbapentin for dogs? JRT has cushings so can't take NSAIDS. Dose is 20mg #barkoutloud |
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fearfuldogs:
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@PatrickMahaney #barkoutloud systemsaverstore.com |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A3b NSAIDs and opioids can offer more immediate relief of acute pain,pending route administration (IV and IM are faster than oral) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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My dog takes gabapentin. RT @Farfbaz:info on effects of long term use of Gabbapentin for dogs? JRT has cushings cant take NSAIDS. #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Farfbaz Jasmine was on Gabapentin post op, fairly long, had no issues #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Cool! Thx for clarification! I will research later RT @fearfuldogs: @PatrickMahaney #barkoutloud systemsaverstore.com |
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SuSiempre:
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@Mod_Hilary #CheatSheet http://www.jdmd.com/glossary/medabbr.pdf :) #Bark Out Loud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Frisbee no issues on it either. No NSAIDS. RT @DawgBlogger: @Farfbaz Jasmine was on Gabapentin post op, fairly long, had no issues #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@Farfbaz Gabapentin is relatively "new" drug used for pain (vs for seizures), but reported to be relatively safe for long term use #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Q4. Everyone: What types of pain have you had to have treated for your dog? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@Farfbaz At same time, best to reduce reliance on Gabapentin by improving joint health, wt loss, etc #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney must be safe if Jasmine had no reaction to it (gabapentin) #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Hilary A4 post op pain, arthritis pain, muscle injury, IBD pain #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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Sad but true, huh, Jana? RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney must be safe if Jasmine had no reaction to it (gabapentin) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Porky quills...used tramadol. #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@Mod_Mary - hound used tramadol too #barkoutloud |
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FlexPet:
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A4 Weve seen lots of hips pain reported to us from ppl and their dogs. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Didn't want NSAID for post op porky quills last year. #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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See Veterinary Partner (my fave site to send vet clients) for info on Gabapentin plus and minus http://bit.ly/bw13k7 #vet #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Lorie yeah, no kidding #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@tacrabtree Love tramadol. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Frisbee takes Gabapentin (neuro), Cosequin (inflamm) and Deramaxx (sometimes) for arthritis pain. Tramadol had no effect. #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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I commonly use Tramadol as adjunct to NSAIDs for arthritic pain, along with AP. RT @tacrabtree: @Mod_Mary - hound used tramadol too #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A4a Acupuncture treats pain by stimulating release of pain relieving substances, including serotonin and norepinephrine #barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@PatrickMahaney what is the safest NSAID in UR opn? 2 Rat Terriers here w/advanced arthritis worsened by cold NY weather #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A4b AP also improves blood flow, which enhances oxygen delivery and facilitates removal of toxins (lactic acid, etc) #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney also used tramadol short term post op #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@PatrickMahaney Sorry-but what is AP? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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we (and our vet) actually found the effect of stem cells for pain amazing #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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AP= Acupuncture RT @Mod_Hilary: @PatrickMahaney Sorry-but what is AP? #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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@PatrickMahaney @Mod_Hilary #CheatSheet #ThisOneIsVeterinary http://www.library.illinois.edu/vex/vetabbrev.htm #Bark Out Loud |
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DawgBlogger:
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also played around with cold laser #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@FlexPet4Shelter @RatboneRescues every pet's response to NSAIDs is variable. Use as labeled #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@FlexPet4Shelter I feel that Rimadyl is safest, as it has been around for the longest vs Metacam vs Deracoxib, etc #barkoutloud |
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PushUpsnPaws:
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#barkoutloud still on Q3? Properly identify the source of pain - this may not be the evident source of pain. look into confirmation/function |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@DawgBlogger How did the laser treatments work for you? #barkoutloud |
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aurapolisher:
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@DawgBlogger Sounds like your vet is very cutting-edge, stem cells, cold laser? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@PatrickMahaney Any truth to the Vit. C supplementation theory, in your opinion? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@Mod_Mary Although an NSAID can cause an adverse reaction in ANY pet, so use judiciously and reduce reliance through MMPM #barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@DawgBlogger my vet says not enough data for him to form opinion~glad U had success! My Sandy has nerve damage & I asked abt it #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@aurapolisher oh yeah, he is - and small town vet too, go figure, huh! :-) He keeps up with everything #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Lorie the laser treatment together with the physio worked well on a complex muscle injury #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Vit C safe antioxidant RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney Any truth to the Vit. C supplementation theory, in your opinion? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Vit C in appropriate quant not hurt! RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney Any truth to the Vit. C supplementation theory, in your opinion? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@DawgBlogger Awesome. I've been curious about laser treatment :-) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Esther C, or any kind of C? RT @PatrickMahaney: Vit C safe antioxidant #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@RatboneRescues there was enough data to me ... look for vets certified for this, that's HOW found our new vet in the first place! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@PatrickMahaney But can it really help with inflammation? Dogs produce Vit. C? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@Mod_Hilary Ester C #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Lorie If I'm correct the cold laser has similar effects as acupuncture #barkoutloud |
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aurapolisher:
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@DawgBlogger That is cool. Trying to find a vet who will help 10 year old golden who was ex-champion. He is depressed. : (
#barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Vit C can have anti-inflamm effects RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney But can it really help with inflammation? Dogs produce Vit. C? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@RatboneRescues talk to @vetstem directly, also on FB #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@Mod_Hilary Stomach problems with plain old vit. c #barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@PatrickMahaney I use Metacam w/occasional Tram~my research indicates Rimadyl is more damaging to liver/kidneys #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Unsure if dog's manufacture own Vit C RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney But can it really help with inflammation? Dogs produce Vit. C? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Don't think dogs mfg their own Vit C RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney But can it really help with inflammation? Dogs produce Vit. C? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney I read that somewhere too #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@RatboneRescues In dogs, I see many more adverse gastrointestinal, kidney, liver reactions with Metacam vs Rimadyl #barkoutloud |
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LewisNBarkMT:
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@FangShuiCanines @svilardo2 has been trying unsuccessfully since early this evening. :( #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@PatrickMahaney I think that's part of the controversy....they man. C in sufficient amounts... extra not helpful.
#barkoutloud |
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Finch93:
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@PatrickMahaney Dogs manufacure vitamin C-primates and guinea pigs and capys don't - but more is often helpful! #dogs #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Most pets have adverse reactions to NSAIDs when they are used inappropriately, for too long, or other..... #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@aurapolisher look it up on vet stem's website (locator) or look for TCVM #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@Finch93 We gave it routinely for Oliver with HD.. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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My experience 2. RT @PatrickMahaney: @RatboneRescues more adverse gastrointestinal, kidney, liver reactions with Metacam vs Rimadyl #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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I think you answered some of this: Q5. How can acupuncture be used to treat pain? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@aurapolisher vetstem locator http://www.vet-stem.com/locatevet/ #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Many adverse reactions to NSAIDs occur when a pet has an underlying condition where they may be producing XS steroids (Cushing's Dz)#barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@PatrickMahaney Q5. How can acupuncture be used to treat pain?
#barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney I was trying to see whether anybody did a study WHAT makes dog react badly to NSAIDs #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney to me there clearly MUST be something in the physiology #barkoutloud |
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aurapolisher:
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@DawgBlogger Thank you so much for the info! Woof! #barkoutloud
#barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@PatrickMahaney I only use Meta & Tram when I see they're uncomfortable~usually can control w/Cosequin #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Lorie like pasta, throw it all against wall and see what sticks! LOL #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Lorie I have no issue with the pasta approach as long as safe
#barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Lorie e.g. tossing supplements, physio, acupuncture ... can't hurt #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@DawgBlogger It's good there's lots of options... then there's all the glucosamine options... HCL etc.. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@RatboneRescues Last vet talk, we found Dosequin better than Cosequin. Upgrade, I think. #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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I have this as ques 4 RT @Mod_Lorie: RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney Q5. How can acupuncture be used to treat pain? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@aurapolisher you're welcome, let me know how you do! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A4a Acupuncture treats pain by stimulating release of pain relieving substances, including serotonin and norepinephrine #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A4b AP also improves blood flow, which enhances oxygen delivery and facilitates removal of toxins (lactic acid, etc) #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Mary glucosamine 'sticking on our wall' also :-) again, can't hurt #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Awesome! RT @RatboneRescues: @PatrickMahaney I only use Meta & Tram when I see they're uncomfortable~usually can control w/Cosequin #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Hilary Yes, dasuquin contains additional agent - avocado/soy bean unsaponifiables #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#OurClientsHaveGreatSuccessWith #PhyCox #Supplement #HelpsReduceOrEliminateNeedForArthritisPainMeds #IsBackOnTheMarket #Bark Out Loud |
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tacrabtree:
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@PatrickMahaney - how do you get a fearful dog to give into or endure the anxiety of AP? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@DawgBlogger All kinds of variables... #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney to what degree does acupuncture address underlying condition e.g. arthritis
#barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@PatrickMahaney very surprised by adverse reactions~also tried accup w/my holistic vet w/no success~pain much worse in winter #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney as opposed to just treating the resulting pain #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Dasuquin is "enhanced" Cosequin RT @Mod_Hilary: @RatboneRescues Last vet talk, we found Dosequin better than Cosequin. #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Cold exacerbates arthritic pain RT @RatboneRescues: also tried accup w/my holistic vet w/no success~pain much worse in winter #barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@tacrabtree my holistic uses a needle strategically placed at top of head~supposed to induce calm #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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AP is multifactorial RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney to what degree does acupuncture address underlying condition e.g. arthritis #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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AP tx local pain and releases pain control hormones RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney as opposed to just treating the resulting pain #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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I think we're covering this, but--have any of you used acupuncture to treat your dog? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Q6. Audience: Have any of you used acupuncture to treat your dog?
#barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Mary yes, used in combo for pain and using for treatment of 'allergies' (latest label for her issue) #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Many dog's not monitored adeq for long term NSAID use RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney Clearly MUST be something in physiology #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@DawgBlogger Of course the TCVM diagnosis doesn't use the word allergy #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Too expensive for us... after a $2000 ACL surgery... did use hydrotherapy... #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#OurClientsWentFrom #Cosequin to #Dasuquin to #PhyCox (#GlycoflexIII when no #PhyCox) @PatrickMahaney @Mod_Hilary @RatboneRescues #Bark Out Loud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney Jasmine got very sick after couple weeks. Read about dogs sick after one! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Q7. What forms of physical rehab can treat pain?
#barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Allergy may = external wind invasion RT @DawgBlogger: @DawgBlogger Of course the TCVM diagnosis doesn't use the word allergy #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Mod_Mary Cool that you were able to build the "pool" in your backyard for the hydrotherapy! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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A6: Had a previous dog treated w/acupuncture for arthritis. He was chipper for a few days, then slid. After many times, continuity! #barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@Mod_Mary yes~used acup w/not much success #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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lotta horror stories here http://www.k911.biz/Petsafety/DeathByPrevicox_RowdysLastVacation.htm #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@Mod_Mary - I'm a big fan of hydrotherapy too #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@Mod_Lorie Hub thought I was nuts. Built it anyway. #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney we are told damp spleen and hot liver #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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soft lighting, massage, take your time! RT @tacrabtree: @PatrickMahaney -how get fearful dog to give into/endure anxiety of AP? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney either way, progress is seen since TCVM treatment included #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Rescue Remedy pre treament! RT @tacrabtree: @PatrickMahaney - how do you get a fearful dog to give into or endure anxiety of AP? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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My dog takes Previcox! RT @DawgBlogger: horror stories here http://www.k911.biz/Petsafety/DeathByPrevicox_RowdysLastVacation.htm #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney but herbs also for 'wind removal' (that is not gas folks LOL) #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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TCVM more complicated than what I can answer w/out phys exam RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney we are told damp spleen and hot liver #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@PatrickMahaney - I've tried AP with horrible results. Wouldn't put my dog thru that, sorry. #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney our TCVM has a cute little bed in the exam room instead of exam table #barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@PatrickMahaney I do bloodwork yrly~ more often if warranted~understand the importance! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Mod_Lorie I guess hydrotherapy was something i could "DO" with him. #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney I know, read Four Paws, Five Directions :-) #barkoutloud |
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FlexPet:
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@tacrabtree @patrickmahaney AP is one thing we havent tried yet. #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Def not for all pets! RT @tacrabtree: @PatrickMahaney - I've tried AP with horrible results. Wouldn't put my dog thru that, sorry. #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Mary hydrotherapy is great, we could get into the pool if we wanted #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Bldwk AT LEAST every 12 mo ! RT @RatboneRescues: @PatrickMahaney I do bloodwork yrly~more often if warranted~understand importance! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@Mod_Lorie We were a strange site, me and Ollie walking around in that hydrotherapy pool... *tear...* #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@tacrabtree horrible results? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Great book! Pretty pictures! RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney I know, read Four Paws, Five Directions :-) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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Yes, very important with NSAIDS. RT @RatboneRescues: @PatrickMahaney do bloodwork yrly~more often if needed~understand importance! #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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Book dealing with that? RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney I know, read Four Paws, Five Directions :-) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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I love that book! RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney I know, read Four Paws, Five Directions :-) #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Allergies also often XS heat! RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney but herbs also for 'wind removal' (that is not gas folks LOL) #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney yeah, pretty pictures too :-) read it cover to cover #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Mod_Mary I think hydrotherapy has great potential, especially for joint pain. #barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@PatrickMahaney opn pls on tapping a joint to test fluid to determine if arthritis is caused by autoimmune issue? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A7a As I am not gone through physical therapy training, this is not necessarily my area of expertise #barkoutloud |
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Murkland:
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@Mod_Lorie hi, we have used hydrotherapy successfully + also recommend acupuncture #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@tacrabtree yeah, Four Paws, Five Directions - explains the principles of TCVM #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@DawgBlogger - yes, worse after, which was hard to believe possible! But that's just me... #barkoutloud |
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boulderdog1:
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@PatrickMahaney Thank you re: omega 3 dose #barkoutloud Night all :-) |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A7b @CalAnimalRehab in Santa Monica, CA is typically where I send my patients for PT evaluation #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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We've been discussing this, but officially, Q9. What types of supplements (herbal or otherwise) r available for controlling pain?
#barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney yes, heat, dampness, wind added later on #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A7b Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT), Extracorporeal Shockwave Therapy (ESWT), ultrasound, massage, warm/cold compress are PT option #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney one thing also, Jasmine SO picky - and she eats the food with the herbs
#barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Q8: Some of you answered, but what forms of physical rehab have you used for your dog? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney very strong flavor - she eats it - means something #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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I don't do RT @RatboneRescues: opn pls on tapping a joint to test fluid to determine if arthritis is caused by autoimmune issue? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@tacrabtree I find that strange, though it could happen I guess #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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@RatboneRescues Yes, joint taps may be vital in determining best course of treatment for autoimmune joint dz #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Mod_Hilary physical rehab: prom, specific exercises, chiro, hydrotherapy #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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You're welcs. Start with 1/2 dose x few days RT @boulderdog1: @PatrickMahaney Thank you re: omega 3 dose #barkoutloud Night all :-) |
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PatrickMahaney:
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Great to hear! RT @Murkland: @Mod_Lorie hi, we have used hydrotherapy successfully + also recommend acupuncture #barkoutloud #vet |
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RatboneRescues:
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@PatrickMahaney any reason why? R U against it? is it worth doing? My foster Ana came 2 me almost totally immobile fr pain @ 3 y/o #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@PatrickMahaney Wondering about fish oil... want to start foster pup on it. full dose = diarrhea? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@murkland Good to know. Thanks. #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A9a A variety of supplements and herbs can help to reduce inflammation and pain #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@PatrickMahaney i hear alot about Willow Tree Bark.... but also that tannins can be a problem ? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A9b Omega 3 Fatty Acids (fish, flax, or hemp oil) will reduce inflammation/pain when given appropriate quantity consistent basis #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@RatboneRescues you suspect RA? RA quite rare in dogs #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A9c Joint supplements (Glucosamine HCl, Chondroitin Sulfate, MSM, PSGAG) can build joint health and reduce inflammation #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
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A9d Chinese herbs (pending TCVM diagnosis) can move blood, tonify qi, and clear phelgm/dampness that lead to pain #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@RatboneRescues http://dawgbusiness.blogspot.com/2010/05/reader-question-rheumatoid-arthritis-ra.html #barkoutloud |
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Murkland:
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@Mod_Hilary treadmill in water for PT. Laser, acupuncture visibly worked, did day after after PT sessions #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@LewisNBarkMT we had no digestive issues with full omega 3 dose #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@LewisNBarkMT we are using pharmaceutic grade #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
I have RA, and did research for pets. Rare, but can happen. RT @DawgBlogger: @RatboneRescues you suspect RA? RA quite rare in dogs #barkoutloud |
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RatboneRescues:
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@DawgBlogger don't know~she's much better now with good vet care, supplements & drugs, but x-rays show arthritic damage 2 hips/back #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Unsure. Others? RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney i hear alot about Willow Tree Bark.... but also that tannins can be a problem ? #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@PatrickMahaney - are the joint supplements availalble online or only thru vet? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@RatboneRescues osteoarthritis more common that RA in dogs. If you suspect though, I'd seek confirmation #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
Perfect! RT @DawgBlogger: @RatboneRescues http://dawgbusiness.blogspot.com/2010/05/reader-question-rheumatoid-arthritis-ra.html #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
@Mod_Hilary Yes... that worked well for us.. hydrotherapy #barkoutloud |
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Murkland:
|
@PatrickMahaney don't joint supplements carry advisories for dogs w kidney issues? My Harry had stones, couldn't use #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@PatrickMahaney never tried Willow Tree Bark #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Best to start supplements individually and make sure the body is tolerating x 4-7 days BEFORE starting addit supplement #Dogtalk |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
Since we're almost out of time, I have a last Q for Dr. Mahoney, once we're done w/ questions on previous. #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
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@Murkland we have to be careful due to allergies also #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
I rec pet specific joint suppls RT @tacrabtree: @PatrickMahaney - are the joint supplements availalble online or only thru vet? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
But you can get some of these OTC RT @tacrabtree: @PatrickMahaney - are the joint supplements availalble online or only thru vet? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
Final formal Q13: What types of lifestyle modifications can be used to help dogs with chronic pain? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Depends on particular supplement! RT @Murkland: @PatrickMahaney don't joint supplements carry advisories for dogs w kidney issues? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
@DawgBlogger http://theherbgardener.blogspot.com/2007/11/natural-pain-relief-from-white-willow.html #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
|
@DawgBlogger we always have to watch the source of everything, using UbaVet for glucos, cause no add ingr #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Always read labels/follow direction RT @Murkland: @PatrickMahaney don't joint supplements carry advisory for dogs w kidney issues? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
@PatrickMahaney Osteo biflex okay to use? #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
A13a Life style modification to manage chronic pain requires adjustment by both patient (pet) and owner! Yes, YOU must change! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
A13b Pets that have chronic pain should partake in activity that is as nontraumatic (low impact) as possible #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
|
@LewisNBarkMT all kinds of suppls available everywhere, we opt to get ours from our vets #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
A7c Nontraumatic activities include walking, moderate hiking, or swimming versus running, jumping, sprinting, etc #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
|
@LewisNBarkMT popular ones up here Sasha's Blend and Dasuquin #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Human product for pet, is that your question? RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney Osteo biflex okay to use? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
@PatrickMahaney yes. that's my question. #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Dog/Cat GI tract may not absorb human supplements effectively RT @Mod_Mary: @PatrickMahaney Osteo biflex okay to use? #barkoutloud |
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jawaj52:
|
Our 2-3 year old Border has had no problems yet. Knock on wood. http://yfrog.com/f1uskj #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
A7d Taking your dog out for a walk or hike will do both you and your pet good as compared to a vigorous game of ?ChuckIt? #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
Agree! RT @PatrickMahaney: A7c Nontraumatic activities include walking, moderate hiking, or swimming #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
|
#WeUse #VetCentric #OnlineRx #MostSupplements MT @PatrickMahaney: can get some OTC MT @tacrabtree: joint supplements online? #Bark Out Loud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Oops! A13d Taking your dog out for a walk or hike will do both you and your pet good as compared to a vigorous game of ?ChuckIt? #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney How about regularity? regular better than once in a blue moon ... #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney at least that's what I read #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
@PatrickMahaney All this info sounds similar to treating humans for pain! Drugs may be a bit diff, but basically same. Good info! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Yes, every day, as directed RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney How about regularity? regular better than once in a blue moon ... #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Joint supplements are long term RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney How about regularity? regular better than once in a blue moon #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
@PatrickMahaney - the way a human stays fit is to own a dog & walk every day! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
If don't see response, then discuss w/vet RT @DawgBlogger: @PatrickMahaney How about regularity? Reg better than once in blue moon #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
Good advice!! LOL RT @tacrabtree: @PatrickMahaney - the way a human stays fit is to own a dog & walk every day! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Awesome suggestion! RT @tacrabtree: @PatrickMahaney - the way a human stays fit is to own a dog & walk every day! #barkoutloud |
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DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney I meant regular daily exercise instead weekend exercise :-) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
Wow, what a great discussion! Time flew by again! @PatrickMahaney, thanks for all your wise information and fun discussion! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@PatrickMahaney Thanks so much for joining us. Great chat. VERY informative!! #barkoutloud |
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PatrickMahaney:
|
Thanks for having me! So fun to Tweet! RT @Mod_Lorie: @PatrickMahaney Thanks so much for joining us. Great chat. VERY informative!! #barkoutloud |