| |
|
July 27, 2010
|
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
We are pleased to have Dr. Patrick Mahaney, aka @PatrickMahaney,
as our guest tonite. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
Patrick's veterinary practice is California Pet Acupuncture and
Wellness (CPAW), Inc. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
You can find him online at
http://patrickmahaney.com #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
Okay! Q1. What is integrative veterinary medicine? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
Glad to be here tonight to talk about integrative #veterinary
#medicine
#barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A1-a. Integrative veterinary medicine is exactly what the title
implies; #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
Right up my alley this evening - we are talking about integrative
veterinary medicine #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A1-b. An integration of unique and complementary methodologies of
veterinary practice. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
You mean a blend of eastern and western medicine, right? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A1-c. My practice is an integration of Western (conventional) and
traditional Chinese veterinary medicine (TCVM). #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
Yes, my practice blends Western (conventional) and Eastern (not
conventional) veterinary medicine! #barkoutloud |
|
FixItFish:
|
:)Very cool! Never heard of.. but makes sense! RT @PatrickMahaney
#barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
oh I have a book re: complementary vet medicine (Schoen/Wynn) #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@danielbeattydvm
"other" methodologies can be acupuncture, chiropractic, physical
therapy, herbal/supplements, etc #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
We have been using TCVM for a bit over a year now #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
there are some alternatives that although may have their origins
from eastern medicine I don't think would be classed that anymore #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Any questions about what integrative medicine is before we go on to
Q2? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
Turned to it with Jasmine's 'mysterious' symptoms that couldn't be
identified after years of trying #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
Glad to hear your practice is using TCVM #barkoutloud
How have you used it so far? |
|
TheSophDog:
|
Do you use homeopathy? #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Good that it worked RT @DawgBlogger:
Turned to it with Jasmines mysterious symptoms that couldnt be
identified after yrs of trying #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@DawgBlogger
Good! And, I know you've had some success with it! #barkoutloud |
|
foster_sj:
|
Our vet used acupuncture to help our dog's injury to her back. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Q2. How did you become interested in the integrative approach? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
not a vet, owners :-) To identify and treat 'mysterious symptoms'
that seemed to have turned possibly allergies #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@TheSophDog
I am not trained in homeopathy, but I refer to vets that have such
training if a client wants it for their pet #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@DawgBlogger
PatrickMahaney @Mod_Hilary
What kind of illness did Jasmine have? #barkoutloud
#barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A2-a. I was intrigued by the integrative approach after suffering
multiple back injuries #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DogBlogger
Non-traditional therapies are often sought when Western med solely
does not resolve ills #barkoutloud |
|
tacrabtree:
|
@PatrickMahaney
- so is it a similar approach for pets as for humans? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
progressive episodes of panting/pacing with unknown origin #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
yes, exactly, though now we'd look to those first #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A2-b. Pain virtually resolved via regular yoga, chiropractic,
acupuncture, supplements, Chinese herbs, and activity modification.
#barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@taracrabtree
human Chinese medicine has led to the development of applications
for animals many years before tradit vet med #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Question is, how often does western medicine actually RESOLVE things
rather than manage #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBLogger
A- western med does resolve some things...surgery for fractures,
treating toxicity, etc #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@Foster_SJ
Did acupuncture help? #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
Q3. How does TCVM (Eastern) medicine vary from Western medicine? #barkoutloud |
|
foster_sj:
|
Yes, Kita had injury to neck area, and when people rubbed or patted
her there, she yelped. After acupuncture, no more yelps! #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A3-a. TCVM shares similarities with Western approach, yet there are
many fundamental differences. #barkoutloud |
|
FixItFish:
|
Is there a 'sort of' meditative or 'serenity' Enviro/approach you
use with patients @PatrickMahaney
#Dogtalk |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
Do they conflict when it comes to patient mgmt? #barkoutloud
I hope they work together! |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A3-b. Both TCVM and Western approach rely on history taking and
physical exam (PE) to establish a series of differential diagnoses.
#barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Yes, made to work together ;-) #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
The primary physician is an awesome vet, he will go along with
anything that might help patient #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@FixItFish
With all of my patients, I evaluate what in environment may be
contributing to their condition and make pos changes #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
He is technically in charge, TCVM in consultant position #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
We decided to keep him in charge, cause though western med only, so
awesome #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A3-c. Western relies heavily on PE and diagnostics to reach a
diagnosis and recommend treatment (prescr meds, surgery, etc). #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
Glad to hear both sides work together to reach a common good! #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A3-d. TCVM PE incorporates the following three (3) aspects to
establish a diagnosis according to the 8 Principle theory. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A3-e. Firstly TCVM PE carefully evaluates characteristics of
particular organ systems, such as tongue and pulse. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A3-f. Secondly TCVM PE evaluates body?s energy channels (meridians),
which correlate with cardiovascular/lymphatic/other systems. #barkoutloud |
|
DREAMRescue:
|
Ive tried acupuncture for dachshund back injuries; no success. I
know others have had better luck. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A3-g. Thirdly, TCVM PE deeply scrutinizes visual characteristics of
various body systems(skin/coat health, body condition, energy) #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@DREAMRescue
yes, we have good experience and I know a large number of people who
do #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@DREAMRescue
those mainly chronic conditions though #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DreamRescue
acupunct did not hep at all? It is not the sole treatment I rely
upon, but I typically see at least some improvement #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@DREAMRescue
In an integrative approach there are times that you would need
surgery and then come back with alternatives to assist #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A3-h. Collectively, these three TCVM PE perspectives help establish
an 8 Principle theory diagnosis. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@DREAMRescue
How long of a period did you try acupuncture? Once may not do much;
it's cumulative. I realize you know that. #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@DREAMRescue
there is also always a question of how good the practitioner you
used was #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@PatrickMahaney
How much influence do some of the more potent drugs such as
corticosteroids have on your TCVM PE? #barkoutloud |
|
foster_sj:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Our pup rec'd 3 consecutive acupuncture treatments - neck injury. A
godsend for her. No luck with herbs for skin. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Good question. I was wondering that... #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DanielBeattyDVM
Corticosteroids cause there to be more Yang (heat) in the body,
which leads to "heat signs" or excess #barkoutloud |
|
DREAMRescue:
|
Series of 6 i think RT @Mod_Hilary
How long of a period did you try acupuncture? Once may not do much;
it's cumulative. #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@Mod_Mary
I cheated a little, since it comes up in my practice all the
time...lol #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
I think you should translate that ;-) #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DanielBeattyDVM
corticosteroids can certainly muddle the TCVM PE diagnostic process,
but sometimes they help the pet! #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@danielbeattydvm
: ) #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@DREAMRescue
how far apart? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Foster_SF
Glad to hear your pup benefited from the use of AP to treat her neck
pain! #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Q4. Do you treat all patients with an integrative approach? #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@PatrickMahaney
In some instances it is the necessary evil; we will need to deal
with the underlying but give the pet relief now #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Dr. Goldstein calls steroids the reliever of all and the curer of
none #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DanielBeattyDVM
@DawgBlogger
Steroids can help to make the pet feel better, but can mask other
serious underlying abnormalities #barkoutloud |
|
TheSophDog:
|
So Yang meridians such as bladder would be more active with
corticosteroids in use? #barkoutloud |
|
DREAMRescue:
|
It was a few years ago but i think 2-3 weeks. RT @DawgBlogger
@DREAMRescue
how far apart? #barkoutloud |
|
foster_sj:
|
@PatrickMahaney
She was v. tender prior to the treatments, really suffering. So glad
to have resolution within 10 days. #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@DREAMRescue
seems with these things, as with physical therapy, at least twice a
week initially is a good protocol #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Exactly! Ultimately, we need to have our pets feeling better (to
satisfy owners too) #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@DREAMRescue
we did the same with Jasmine's muscle injury - twice a week
initially #barkoutloud |
|
DREAMRescue:
|
@PatrickMahaney
how would u balance? //// Steroids can help to make the pet feel
better, but can mask underlying abnormalities #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
we are staying away from steroids as long as we can; already have
bad history of drug reactions #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
I'd rather have Jasmine to feel worse and get better than to feel
better and get worse #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DREAMRescue
Try to wean them to low dose and low frequency steroids ASAP! #barkoutloud |
|
DREAMRescue:
|
Wow! No thats not what was recommended RT @DawgBlogger
we did the same with Jasmine's muscle injury - twice a week
initially #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Lorie
I have posted all of my Q3 responses. Moving on? #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@DREAMRescue
When I see a chronic case that has been on steroids, it makes it
difficult. Have to know how the pet was prior to use #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
aren't they herbs with similar effects to steroids? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@DREAMRescue
Kind of strange. Did a series 2x/week, then gradually to 1x/month #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Foster_SJ
Glad to hear. No more cervical collars, I hope! #barkoutloud |
|
FangShuiCanines:
|
Q4. Do you treat all patients with an integrative approach? #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
Plant Sterols RT @DawgBlogger:
@PatrickMahaney
arent they herbs with similar effects to steroids? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
Some herbs can have a heating or blood moving effect, like the
effect of steorids #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Why not use those instead? #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@DawgBlogger
Some vets do use them; however in some cases they do not control all
of the symptoms #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
Regarding anti-inflammatories (steroid, NSAID) I try to reduce
reliance on via herbs if owner and patient compliant #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A4-a. Every veterinary physical exam I perform involves both the
Western and TCVM approach. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A4-b. I rarely recommend exclusively TCVM treatment, as some
conditions respond better to Western medicine or surgery. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
What are "in" Chinese herbs? Several different herbs, other
substances as well? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Mary
Some herbs are just straight forward herb, others are blends #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Blends with crazy names ;-) #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
I use DGP, Canine Pain Plus or Traumeel for starters #barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
@PatrickMahaney
do you do your own blending? if not, where are the blends made? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@danielbeattydvm
yeah, was gonna ask about Traumeel #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@danielbeattydvm
ASU is Avocado Soybean Unaponifables such as in Nutramax Cosamine
ASU (for people). Dasuquin for pets #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
Ah - forgot I do also use Omegas especially for skin #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
Yep - Dasaquin is my favorite joint supplement and it is also good
for cystitis in cats #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@ComfyPaws
I do NO blending myself. I dispense Natural Path or Dr. Xie's Jing
Tang Herbal or Kan herb #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
@danielbeattydvm
Is Dasuquin similar to Cosequin? Better? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Use 180mg/5kg body weight every 24 hrs for anti-inflammatory effect
on joints! Love it myself #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
It is the next evolution of Cosequin RT @Mod_Hilary:
@PatrickMahaney
@danielbeattydvm
Is Dasuquin similar to Cosequin? Better? #barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
@PatrickMahaney
ok thanks - I was thinking maybe an herbalist and you call in an RX
#barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@danielbeattydvm
@Mod_Hilary
Dasuquin is "enhanced" Cosequin with ASU component for additional
anti-inflamm effect #barkoutloud |
|
foster_sj:
|
@PatrickMahaney
So this is better than glucosomine? #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
How is Dasuquin better? More healing? RT @danielbeattydvm:
It is the next evolution of Cosequin #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
Yes, totally crazy names. I use the "Western names" RT @DawgBlogger:
@PatrickMahaney
Blends with crazy names ;-) #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Good 2 know. RT @danielbeattydvm:
@Mod_Hilary
I have seen better results or more exactly quicker results due to
the ASUs #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@Mod_Hilary
supposed to be better because of the unsaponifiables #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
So have I. RT @danielbeattydvm:
@Mod_Hilary
I have seen better results or more exactly quicker results due to
the ASUs #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Foster_SJ
Dasuquin is an oral joint supplement that includes glucosamine. See
http://bit.ly/dfuvLc #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@Mod_Hilary
http://dawgbusiness.blogspot.com/2010/03/avocadosoybean-unsaponifiables-asu-for.html
#barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Love that word unsaponifiables ! RT @DawgBlogger:
@Mod_Hilary
supposed to be better because of the unsaponifiables #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
what about elk velvet antler? #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
Q5. What types of modalities do you use in your integrative
practice? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@Mod_Hilary
LOL great word, isn't it? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Hilary
I have found that with fish oil and joint supplements I barely need
any NSAIDs for my pain! Many patients too! #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
I have heard good things about elk velvet antler. Always concern for
the "harvesting" process. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@DawgBlogger
Yes, I would never know how to pronounce unsaponifiables! #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@Keeping_Awake
up here Sasha's Blend also very popular #barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
LOL was just thinking how the heck do ya get velvet off an elk
antler #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A5-a. Non-Western modalities I offer include acupuncture/massage,
Chinese herb, dietary supplements/modification, lifestyle change. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Agree that harvesting practice might be questionable. #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@ComfyPaws
that's the stuff they rub off, isn't it? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
what kind of lifestyle changes? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Hilary
I know of many TCVM pratitioners that use velvet antler with good
success #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
that's the stuff they rub off though, isn't it? #barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
@DawgBlogger
I think so ... but to collect in quantity may involve modification
of the lifestyle of the elk #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
do you also do diet changes? (e.g. warming/cooling ingredients etc)
#barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@ComfyPaws
dunno, in Czech stuff hanging off trees from deer #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@PatrickMahaney
How about PT? Many electrical devices are very good for pain and
inflammation along with exercises. #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@Mod_Hilary
seems to be one of the 'star' supplements of choice nowadays #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
DawgBlogger: Add ramps to beds, textured surfaces instead of
slipping, increasing activity for weight loss, home phys therapy,etc
#barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Was wondering about that too. Even range of motion exercises and
massage. #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@danielbeattydvm
we used cold laser treatments and hydrotherapy #barkoutloud |
|
tacrabtree:
|
@PatrickMahaney
- do you incorporate water therapy? #barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
@Mod_Lorie
stretches and massage like Tellingtion? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
what about tricky things such as allergies? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Hilary
Not sure of comparison between Dasuquin and velvet antler, but
Dasuquin has research behind it showing it works! #barkoutloud |
|
tacrabtree:
|
@danielbeattydvm
- yes - the swimming pool saved my daughter's rottie #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
thanks for info about Dasuquin! I see you have lots of Qs
simultaneously! #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Yes! I use electroacupuncture on many patient with back pain and
myofascial trigger pain with good success #barkoutloud |
|
DREAMRescue:
|
*Note to self* RT @danielbeattydvm
Yep - Dasaquin is my favorite joint supplement and it is also good
for cystitis in cats #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@tacrabtree
I refer patients to vet phys therapists to have water therapy. Great
activity ! #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@ComfyPaws
Yes, I use stretches and massage with all of my painful/arthritic
patients BEFORE acupuncture treatment #barkoutloud |
|
pawcurious:
|
Good evening #barkoutloud,
I'm just reading along and seeing what you all have been discussing.
<3 Dasuquin too |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Ready for next question? #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
How about a true integrative approach for an arthritic joint, like
stem cell therapy? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
Allergies can be tricky! Often food mod helps. I get patients on
home prepared, less processed foods to reduce inflamm #barkoutloud |
|
tacrabtree:
|
@PatrickMahaney
- what do you do for the discomfort of severe hip dysplacia? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@danielbeattydvm
HA stem cell therapy, was debating whether to bring it up! #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Jasmine had that #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
RT @danielbeattydvm:
How about a true integrative approach for an arthritic joint, like
stem cell therapy? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Hilary
You are welcs. I take human Cosamin ASU and my patients take
Dasuquin with MSM #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Story about it on NPR today. RT @DawgBlogger:
@danielbeattydvm
HA stem cell therapy, was debating whether to bring it up! #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Jasmine is on home-cooked diet, issues seem to be environmental
triggers e.g. pollens #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
I want to get more experiences with stem cell tx. It seems to have
validity. I need certification! #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
here, here! Diet to reduce allergies... #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@tacrabtree
I do have to mention stem cell therapy for severe hip dysplasia #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Let us know when you're ready for next Q. #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Yeah I need to find 3 hours to sit through the certification
process...lol #barkoutloud |
|
gooddogz:
|
Can dogs w/chronic pancreatitis tolerate Dosuquin? For cats cystitis
is it the cat version that helps? #barkoutloud |
|
pawcurious:
|
Do any of the DVMs here see much stem cell treatment? I know it has
a lot of buzz but in reality I have rarely seen it done #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Stem cell therapy. RT @danielbeattydvm:
@DawgBlogger
Did it work well? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Mary
Yes, avoid "meals", "by products", major alterations in foods from
how they should be consumed as earth engineered! #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Our vet is very excited about it, he did stem cells for Jasmine #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@danielbeattydvm
we are very happy with the stem cell therapy results - no pain drugs
at all #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@pawcurious
One vet in the area has done 7 with good results, according to the
owners. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@gooddogz
With pancreatitis, you may want to consider intramuscular injectable
Novartis Adequan, which avoids the GI tract. #barkoutloud |
|
DREAMRescue:
|
We have had ivdd dogs walk after swim therapy RT @tacrabtree
@danielbeattydvm
- the swimming pool saved my daughter's rottie #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@pawcurious
I've seen the outcome a few times. Never performed the procedure
myself. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Hilary
Ready for next question! #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
I'll just throw this out: Q6. What types of diseases/conditions can
be treated with integrative medicine? #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@pawcurious
Jasmine had it done, over 5000 pets treated, which isn't much I
guess, more all the time #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
SO with @DawgBlogger
that makes 8 that I have heard good results using stem cell therapy
#barkoutloud |
|
Finch93:
|
@pawcurious
I have no personal experience but have heard amazing things #StemCellTherapy
#barkoutloud |
|
pawcurious:
|
@Mod_Lorie
Good? indifferent? Curious to see any long term outcomes. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@DawgBlogger
Glad to hear you know of good response to stem cell with Jasmine! #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A6-a. Any ailment for which a pet owner would pursue Western
diagnosis and treatment can be treated with the integrative
approach. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@pawcurious
Interestingly, (and anecdotally), my brother knows a few horse
people who had no success with it. #barkoutloud |
|
pawcurious:
|
@Finch93
I need to get the certification! Keep meaning to. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A6-b. Pain(arthritis, trauma), obesity, and immune mediated
disease(allergies, cancer) are main conditions I treat in my
practice. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@pawcurious
Moderate success with the dog. Owners were pleased though #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@danielbeattydvm
http://www.arthritisindogsblog.com/ #barkoutloud |
|
RustyDawgPetPro:
|
Coming in late for #barkoutloud.
Any1 have good experiences with Cartrophen injections 4 arthritic
cats? Looking into that for my 18yr old Max. |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@Mod_Lorie
Adequan... originally for horses, yes? #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@ComfyPaws
Yes, and I'm only repeating what my non-vet horse-owning brother
told me. So take it for what it's worth :-) #barkoutloud |
|
Keeping_Awake:
|
@RustyDawgPetPro
I didn't think cartrophen was approved in US yet, but I may be wrong
#barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
@Mod_Lorie
I've read of one stem cell therapy case of a 67 yo woman with RA
treated successfully #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Same. It has been on to do list for some time. I don't have my own
facility, so harvesting/etc makes a challenge #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@pawcurious
Jasmine's stem cells about two years ago, as good as new #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
We did Adequan injections, ACL injury/repair, with our dog, Ollie.
Helped a tremendous amt. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Mary
I'm not sure whether Adequan started with horses. #barkoutloud |
|
psa2:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Dr. Mary Cardeccia practices complementary vet med here in Dexter,
MI. Had the opportunity to visit her facility. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Some not, tho... RT @ComfyPaws:
@Mod_Lorie
Ive read of one stem cell therapy case of a 67 yo woman with RA
treated successfully #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Mary
Yes, Adequan (my awareness) start for horses, given intra-articularly.
Bovine tracheal cartilage is source #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@Mod_Lorie
I believe so: horses/adequan #barkoutloud |
|
pawcurious:
|
@DawgBlogger
That is really cool. I need to learn more about it, so many dogs
can't tolerate traditional NSAIDS! #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@Mod_Mary
Adequan basically injectable glucosamine #barkoutloud |
|
gooddogz:
|
@PatrickMahaney
do you treat behavior issues as well? #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@DawgBlogger
Yes. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@ComfyPaws
Interesting. It's potential for immune and liver disorders were one
of the things that got my attention. #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
No it is nothing like glucosamine RT @DawgBlogger:
@Mod_Mary
Adequan basically injectable glucosamine #barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
question for DVMs: do you use SamE in integrated treatment? #barkoutloud |
|
Finch93:
|
@pawcurious
@DawgBlogger
and cats! so many dogs can't tolerate traditional NSAIDS! oops #cattalk
Still, all of this is encouraging #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@RustyDawgPetPro
I don't rec NSAIDs for cats. Get on omega 3 fatty acids (fish),
joint suppls, etc #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
RT @PatrickMahaney:
@FixItFish
No aspirin 4 dogs/cats! Interferes w/healthy mucous membrane lining
of GI tract! Use vet prescr prod #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Gooddogz
I use acupuncture with good effect for anti-anxiety, calming, pain
relief, etc #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
Adequan are PSGAGs which are the supporting structures for
glucosamine and Chondroitin to build upon #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@PatrickMahaney
NSAIDS and cats make me nervous too. #barkoutloud |
|
pawcurious:
|
@Finch93
But of course. :) #barkoutloud |
|
pawcurious:
|
Are we talking cartrophen or carprofen? #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@DawgBlogger
similar family but its use in the joint is different - think of it
as the framework for cartilage #barkoutloud |
|
gooddogz:
|
@PatrickMahaney
wish you (andall the vets here tonight) were on the east coast. #Maine
#barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
I'm concerned about the use of tortoise shell in Chinese herbs.
Haven't used them because of this. #barkoutloud |
|
RustyDawgPetPro:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Cartrophen Vet is the Cdn version of Adequan... Not an NSAID. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Mod_Hilary
@Mod_Lorie
Moving on to next question! #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
@DawgBlogger
then think of the other GAGs such as Glucosamine and Chondrotin as
the walls around the framework #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@gooddogz
Awww. Thx. My family is from Mass. I go there in the summers. #barkoutloud |
|
tacrabtree:
|
:) RT @Mod_Mary:
@PatrickMahaney
I'm concerned about the use of tortoise shell in Chinese herbs.
Haven't used them because of this. #barkoutloud |
|
pawcurious:
|
@RustyDawgPetPro
That is an unfortuately similar naming! #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
In horses I will use both Adequan and an oral joint supplement such
as Cosequin together #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
Q7. Can you tell us a little bit about Cardiff and your approach to
treating him? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@RustyDawgPetPro
Aaah. Not familiar with Cartrophen. I thought u were referring to
Carprofen. #barkoutloud |
|
RustyDawgPetPro:
|
@pawcurious
Cartrophen, paws down to the other one! #barkoutloud |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@pawcurious
yes it is, can be easily confused #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@RustyDawgPetPro
Ichon injectable (PSGAG uses for intra abd adhesion prevention) is
also sometimes used. Canada prod #barkoutloud |
|
Keeping_Awake:
|
@RustyDawgPetPro
the Europeans seem to be able to get Cartrophen too, and also love
it for dogs. Not sure why not approved in US. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@tacrabtree
Yes, I don't really want to feed my pet turtle shell, yet I do feed
him other animal products, so I am not 100% against #barkoutloud |
|
tacrabtree:
|
@PatrickMahaney
- can Ichon injectable be used in 3 YO lab already having intestinal
problems from previous surgery? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@Keeping_Awake
Approval process in US rather convoluted, so I hear. Supplements
less regulated! #barkoutloud |
|
FixItFish:
|
Nooooo Never used but was wondering about ..I massage 2x daily RT @Finch93
@FixItFish
hi! You got in troooooooooooooouble! #aspirin
#barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@tacrabtree
Ichon should be able to be used, as it (like Adequan) bypasses GI
tract. Not labeled for intramuscular inj though. #barkoutloud |
|
gooddogz:
|
@PatrickMahaney
20 years ago when my Border Collie had a brain tumor I used Shark
cartiladge. Everyone was doing it. #guilt
#barkoutloud |
|
RustyDawgPetPro:
|
Cartrophen only approved in dogs but sometimes used in cats.Vet
mentioned it 2day cuz she knows I don't like NSAIDs etc esp in cats
#barkoutloud |
|
Keeping_Awake:
|
@PatrickMahaney
Maybe we'll have Cartrophen as an option someday then! ;) #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A7-a. My 'special needs' Welsh Terrier, Cardiff, survived 3 bouts
Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (IMHA) in five years of life. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A7-b. When Cardiff?s third episode occurred, I had more experience
to provide an integrative approach to his treatment. #barkoutloud |
|
tacrabtree:
|
@FixItFish
@Finch93
- my vet told me to use aspirin for my dog instead of the rx - o
matter of opinion I guess #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A7-c. I dug deeper into his probs from TCVM perspective to determine
additional treatments not within realm of a Western approach. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A7-d. As a result, in third episode, Cardiff had the least severe
clinical manifestation and most consistently rapid response. #barkoutloud |
|
danielbeattydvm:
|
WOW!!! RT @PatrickMahaney:
My 'special needs' Welsh Terrier, Cardiff, survived 3 bouts IMHA in
5 years of life. #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
A7-e. To this day, Cardiff shows no signs of illness and has perfect
blood tests results(which I check every few weeks to months). #barkoutloud |
|
TheSophDog:
|
RE A7-d: Wow! Well done! #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
It's getting late, folks. Thank you @PatrickMahaney
for being here tonight! Great job! Interesting topic! #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
@danielbeattydvm
Yes, IMHA is a fate no vet or client should have to go through! #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
Patrick's veterinary practice is California Pet Acupuncture and
Wellness (CPAW), Inc. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
IMHA=Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia #barkoutloud |
|
ComfyPaws:
|
amazing RT @PatrickMahaney
To this day, Cardiff shows no signs of illness, has perfect blood
tests results #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
You can also find him online at
http://patrickmahaney.com #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
I'll second that. Nasty dz. RT @PatrickMahaney:
@danielbeattydvm
Yes, IMHA is a fate no vet or client should have to go through! #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@PatrickMahaney
I want to say "thank you" as well! #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
#barkoutloud
Thank you for having me as part of the discussion! Read my #vet
#blog on
http://bit.ly/cV7bFR |
|
tacrabtree:
|
@Mod_Lorie
- any suggestions on how to find a vet that uses alternative med in
our own area? #barkoutloud |
|
PatrickMahaney:
|
#barkoutloud
Cardiff has his own blog on my site as well where he talks about his
adventures in IMHA recovery |
|
DawgBlogger:
|
@tacrabtree
this place has a good directory
http://www.tcvm.com/ #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
If all your questions weren't answered, definitely visit @PatrickMahaney
at http://patrickmahaney.com
#barkoutloud |
|
TheSophDog:
|
@tacrabtree
Check out the AHVMA, as a jumping off point for finding alternative
med-using vets. http://ahvma.org/ #barkoutloud |