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May 24, 2010
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Mod_Mary:
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Okay! I'd like to officially welcome all of you here! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Would also like to say a special welcome to Lorie Huston... our co-moderator and a good friend! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Q1: What are the symptoms of heart disease? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A1-a. Symptoms will vary from dog to dog and will depend to some extent on the cause of the heart disease. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A1-b. There are many different disease processes that can cause heart disease. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A1-c. Common symptoms include loss of appetite, lethargy, pale gums, increased heart rate, coughing,... #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A1-d. ...difficulty breathing, rapid breathing, shortness of breath, weight loss, exercise intolerance,... #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A1-e. ...periods of weakness, and fainting (weakness and fainting may be due to arrhythmias) #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A1-f. Congestive heart failure may occur and may make the symptoms more severe. More on that later. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A1. Question/comments? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Any comments or questions on Q1 and A1 answers that Lorie gave? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Any one recognize any of these symptoms in their dog? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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I will say that my dog had no symptoms.... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Any of your dogs have heart disease, or have had it? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Yes, some dogs can be asymptomatic in early stages. RT @Mod_Mary: I will say that my dog had no symptoms.... #barkoutloud |
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fearfuldogs:
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I had a dog w heart block that had a good quality of life w the use of some very expensive meds ;) #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@Mod_Hilary no, but I have known lots of dogs w heart issues, almost all lived much longer than Vets thought they would #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@fearfuldogs What were symptoms? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@fearfuldogs Yes, often heart blocks can be controlled with meds :-) #barkoutloud |
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DogHouseK9Coach:
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no heart problems here so far... (knock on wood) #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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#barkoutloud My Cuddles showed no symptoms until the day he died of cardio-myopathy. It hit real hard... real fast. |
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Mod_Mary:
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@tombshopmom Oh my...I'm so sorry about this... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@tombshopmom Wow, can cardiomyopathy hit suddenly, with no symptoms? So sorry. #barkoutloud |
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lostinsomniac:
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@tombshopmom I'm so very sorry about Cuddles. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@tombshopmom Yes, cardiomyopathies are notoriously quick acting and difficult to diagnose. Sorry for your experience :-(
#barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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We're actually going to talk more about cardiomyopathies in a bit. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Maybe Q2 will be relevant here...? #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@LorieAHuston - does weight play a part in dogs as it does in ppl? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Re: symptoms... can a heart murmur point to serious heart issues? #barkoutloud |
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foster_sj:
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Are some dogs like people with heart disease: they live in spite of what the docs predict? #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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@Mod_Mary Thank you.It was an extreme shock It was fast though & he didn't linger. Mixed blessing I guess. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Cardiomyopathies are one of the most common forms of heart disease in large and giant breeds.
#barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Q2. What are some of the most common causes of heart disease in adult dogs?
#barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Mary Yes, heart murmurs can point to serious disease, but are not always serious in and of themselves. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@foster_sj Yes, probably so. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@LorieAHuston Gotcha...thanx. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Weight can play a part, yes. RT @tacrabtree: @LorieAHuston - does weight play a part in dogs as it does in ppl? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-a. The most common cause of heart disease is degenerative valve disease (DVD) #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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@LorieAHuston My gosh.Thanks everyone. Ur kindness means alot even 3 yrs later. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-b. In DVD, the valves located between the chambers of the heart become mis-shapen and become leaky. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-c. This allows some of the blood to flow backwards instead of forwards, making the heart work harder to keep up. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@foster_sj The dogs I knew who did well were all treated aggressively and got excellent care. #notuptochance #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-d. DVD most often occurs in older small breed dogs. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-e. The other common cause of heart disease is dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM), a disease of the heart muscle itself. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-f. With DCM, the heart muscle loses the ability to contract normally and the heart increases in size while trying to compensate. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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RT @LorieAHuston:
A2-a. The most common cause of heart disease is degenerative valve
disease (DVD) < did not know that #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-g. DCM most often affects large and giant breed dogs. #barkoutloud |
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fearfuldogs:
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my dog's signs were lethargy & slow heart rate->heart block. did regular EKGs 2 monitor.
#barkoutloud |
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DogHouseK9Coach:
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@tombshopmom my friends pom/chi was just diagnosed with that :( #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-h. DCM is usually an inherited disease, tho rarely dietary deficiencies, toxins and infections can cause it. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-i. Dietary deficiencies known to cause DCM are taurine and L-carnitine. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-j. Other less common causes: pericardial disease (pericardial refers to sac around heart), cancer, cysts, diaphragmatic hernia #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A2-k. Also heartworm disease. Occ pulmonic stenosis and mitral valve stenosis can be acquired but more often congenital #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@LorieAHuston I always hear Hearts labeled with # for seriousness. Will you talk about that? #barkoutloud |
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foster_sj:
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@gooddogz I always wonder how the spirit of the dog and the heart condition interplay. #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@LorieAHuston - in the large breeds what is the most common cause? (sorry if I missed that answer) #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@gooddogz Yes, we'll talk about grades of heart murmurs a little later #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@tacrabtree Large breeds most often cardiomyopathy and most often inherited #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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@DogHouseK9Coach Cuddles was a pappillon/chihuahua mix. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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What foods have taurine and L-carnitine in them? Or are they mostly in supplements? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@gooddogz Is grading of heart murmurs what you meant? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Very cute. So sorry. RT @tombshopmom: @DogHouseK9Coach Cuddles was a pappillon/chihuahua mix. #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@LorieAHuston - are the valve problems similar to mitrovalve prolapse? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@LorieAHuston Taurine? Thought that was only important for cats.... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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RT @tacrabtree: @LorieAHuston - are the valve problems similar to mitrovalve prolapse? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Hilary Supplements usually. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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RT @LorieAHuston: @gooddogz Is grading of heart murmurs what you meant? < yes if that means seriousness
#barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Mary Some breeds are thought to have an inherited tendency to have low taurine levels. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@gooddogz Do you mean # for murmur? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@gooddogz Grade of heart murmur does not indicate how serious the disease is. But we'll cover that a little later :-) #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Mary @tacrabtree Prolapses can happen as well. But in some cases the valves become thickened and deformed and don't work right #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Did I miss any questions? #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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@LorieAHuston What breeds might those be w/inherited tendency for low taurine? #barkoutloud |
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DogHouseK9Coach:
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@LorieAHuston perhaps off topic but my yorkie "snorts" a lot, should i be concerend? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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If no more on Q2, on to Q3: Are some breeds more likely to develop heart disease? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Think she probably meant # for the number of the grade :-)RT @Mod_Mary: @gooddogz Do you mean # for murmur? #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#Taurine #CatFood RT @Mod_Mary: @LorieAHuston Taurine? Thought that was only important for cats.... #Bark Out Loud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@tombshopmom I knew someone was going to ask that. I'll have to look that one up and get back to you. Sorry. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@DogHouseK9Coach Hold that question for just a bit... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Q3: Are there some breeds more likely to develop heart disease? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A3-a. Yes, some breeds are predisposed to a particular type of heart disease. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A3-b. DVD: Miniature poodles, Cocker Spaniels, Miniature Schnauzers, Dachshunds, terriers breeds, King Charles Cavalier Spaniels #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A3-c. King Charles Cavalier Spaniels may be affected earlier than other breeds. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A3-e. DCM: Doberman Pinschers, Great Danes, Boxers, Newfoundlands, Portuguese Water Dogs, Dalmatians and Cocker Spaniels #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A3. This doesn't mean that other breeds don't get these diseases too tho #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@LorieAHuston Hmmm... wonder about mixed breeds? #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#Taurine #Breeds http://www.dogaware.com/health/heart.html RT @LorieAHuston: @tombshopmom I knew someone was going to ask that. #Bark Out Loud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Cocker Spaniels and Newfoundlands are the breeds predisposed to taurine deficiency. From earlier question. #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@LorieAHuston Friend had a Boxer just die at doggy daycare-undiagnosed heart disease. Walked in and just died. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Those designer breeds included. RT @Mod_Mary: @LorieAHuston Hmmm... wonder about mixed breeds? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Mary Depends on what breeds make up the mix :-) #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@Mod_Mary - mixed breeds could get the best or the worst from each breed they are from #barkoutloud |
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lostinsomniac:
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@Mod_Mary I was thinking the same thing as I have a terrier poodle mix. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@LorieAHuston **sigh*** #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@DaisyWunderDog Yes, unfortunately sudden death is one of the things that can happen esp. with DCM #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@lostinsomniac I got a coupla Heinz' #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Also, genetics. RT @tacrabtree: @Mod_Mary - mixed breeds could get the best or the worst from each breed they are from #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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I know! RT @Mod_Mary: @LorieAHuston **sigh*** #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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@LorieAHuston Thanks. #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@LorieAHuston I knew Boxers were pre-disposed, but didn't know suddenness of it. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Q4. Can puppies suffer from heart disease?
#barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-a. Yes, there are several congenital heart diseases that can affect puppies at a very early age. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-b. Patent ductus arteriosis (PDA) is the most common of the congenital diseases. #barkoutloud |
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lostinsomniac:
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@Mod_Mary Ha! 57 varieties? Those are my favorite mixes. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-c. PDA is a persistent arterial connection between the aorta and pulmonary artery that normally closes at birth or shortly after #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-d. When the PDA does not close, blood is allowed to flow from the aorta into the pulmonary artery and back to the lungs. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-e. The tissues of the body do not get oxygenated because blood is not flowing normally to them. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@LorieAHuston PDA most common congenital in puppies?
#barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-f. As a result, the heart works harder trying to compensate. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-g. Correction is surgery to close the PDA. 2/3 of puppies not treated will die before one year old. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-h. With treatment though, normal life is possible for the puppy. #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
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@LorieAHuston - you can hear that in puppies - right? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-i. Other congenital diseases: valve malformations, valve narrowing (pulmonic and subaortic stenosis),
... #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-j. ...abnormal openings between the heart chambers (septal defects), Tetralogy of Fallot #barkoutloud |
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FixItFish:
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:)Hi @LorieAHuston What do dog that make susceptible to heartworm-I've imagined was bugs in food or poo eating? #Dogtalk |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-k. Tetralogy of Fallot involves four different defects within the same heart. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@LorieAHuston YIIPPEEE! We got that....Normal life...PDA surgery... #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A4-l. There is nice chart of breed predispositions for congenital heart disease here: http://ow.ly/1ORBo #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@LorieAHuston PDA is one of the most treatable defects in babies. Is the same true for pups? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Yes, PDA most common in puppies RT @Mod_Mary: @LorieAHuston PDA most common congenital in puppies? #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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@FixItFish #Heartworms are spread by #Mosquitos #Bark Out Loud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@gooddogz Yes, often more easily treated than some of the others. Can live normal life after surgery too, if successful :-) #barkoutloud |
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lostinsomniac:
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@FixItFish Heartworm comes from mosquitoes who carry the heartworm larvae. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@FixItFish Heartworms spread by mosquitos. Dogs get infected by being bitten by infected mosquito. Use heartworm prevention! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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RT @KahunasK9s: is behavioral trait such as reactivity increase dogs chances? especially in 1 of the predisposed breeds mentioned? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Coupla options for surgery with PDA... #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@gooddogz It figures. Both my dogs are on the chart. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@LorieAHuston thanks for the chart. #excellent #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@tacrabtree Hear what in puppies? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@lostinsomniac @fixitfish We're going to have a heartworm discussion in June, so save your questions! #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Mary Yes, coils to close the PDA or sutures to close it #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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Good! RT @Mod_Hilary: @lostinsomniac @fixitfish Were going to have a heartworm discussion in June, so save your questions! #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Someone asked a question about reactivity in dogs. Not sure what you meant by reactivity? #barkoutloud |
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FixItFish:
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Wow! Tnks! - Only? ! @BooFixItFish will be getting His Skeeter-Suit RT @SuSiempre: @FixItFish #Heartworms are spread by #Mosquitos #Bark Out Loud |
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tacrabtree:
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@LorieAHuston - problems with the heart similar to a heart murmur, or the click of mitovalve prolapse #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@LorieAHuston one is into the thorasic cavity... coils up through the femoral artery? #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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I'll definitely have 2 learn more re. PDA. Bubba is on that list. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@tacrabtree Heart murmurs are one of the symptoms of heart disease. They indicate turbulence in the heart. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@Mod_Mary I think it was @KahunasK9s: reactivity increase a dogs chances? especially in one of the predisposed breeds mentioned? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@tacrabtree Can be from many different causes and can be innocent as well. We'll talk more about them in a bit
#barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Yes, right! RT @Mod_Mary: @LorieAHuston one is into the thorasic cavity... coils up through the femoral artery? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Q5. What does it mean if a dog has a heart murmur?
#barkoutloud |
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KahunasK9s:
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@LorieAHuston was me! Couldve been terrible ?, but I meant: for breed already susceptible to also have anxiety-type behavior probs #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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@LorieAHuston Vet has Snoopy,my rat-terrier, on heartworm meds due 2 fact that he's a Katrina dog. Prevention #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Q5: What does it mean if a dog has a heart murmur? #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@LorieAHuston I forgot what # Ques we're on, but is PDA likely to show up early in life? As a puppy?
#barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@DaisyWunderDog I can answer that... yes... #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@KahunasK9s No, not terrible ? Yes, I think anxiety can make heart conditions worse. Heart speeds up, works harder. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@tombshopmom I think all dogs should be on HW prevntion...Katrina dog or not... #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@DaisyWunderDog Yes, PDA is congenital and is likely to show up early. If not treated, many don't live past 1 year :-( #barkoutloud |
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KahunasK9s:
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(cont.) does this mean higher risk for dog becuz of anxious behavior and heart disease combined? (sorry if silly question...) #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@DaisyWunderDog The ductus is how a baby's heart works in utero. Once born PDA needs to close to breath air #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A5-a. A heart murmur is an abnormal sound heard during the cycle of the heart beat. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A5-b. A heart murmur represents turbulent blood flow in the heart. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A5-c. Heart murmurs can be benign and are not always a reason a panic. But further investigation is warranted. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A5-d. Many different heart diseases can cause murmurs. They can also occur due to anemia or even excitement/stress. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A5-e. Murmurs are graded based on how loud they are, with one being the softest and six the loudest. #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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@gooddogz Thanks! I missed that one. Guessing Jasper at almost 2 years is in the clear for PDA. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A5-f. The grade of the murmur cannot be used to evaluate the severity of disease though. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@DaisyWunderDog Yes, probably so :-) #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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In people, many who have been told their murmur was nothing to worry about, grew up to find that was untrue. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@DaisyWunderDog Betcha they'd have diagnosed it by now... #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@gooddogz Good point about the ductus being how a babies heart works. You're absolutely right. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Friend has 15yo dog that was just diagnosed w/heart murmur. Is that possible? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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Any other questions about heart murmurs? #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Hilary Yes, absolutely. What breed dog? #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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#barkoutloud PDA seems 2b a worry I can cross off the list. Bubba's 15-16yrs old. Vet says his heart sounds great (for an old guy...LOL) |
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gooddogz:
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1 vets heard a murmur in my dog Charlee. Herding breeds tend to have slow heart rates at rest, and freaky ones under stress. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@LorieAHuston Dobie and gosh, what's that silver dog? Not a Keeshound... #barkoutloud |
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dancingdogblog:
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What does the loudness factor indicate then if not the severity of murmur - is that blood volume or....A5e #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Hilary Often times small breed dogs suffer from DVD and that usually does show up late in life. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@tombshopmom ha! Probly can cross that one off the list... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Yup, can attest to that! RT @gooddogz: Herding breeds tend to have slow heart rates at rest, and freaky ones under stress. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@gooddogz Sometimes murmurs can be difficult to detect. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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@Mod_Hilary I should have said very athletic herding dogs-like working BCs #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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@Mod_Mary Yes... thank goodness. Didn't need anything else. Gheez. :) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@LorieAHuston That's true re murmurs being hard to detect. Maybe that's why the 15yo wasn't diagnosed til now. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Mary @dancingdogblog Loudness of a murmur just indicates the degree of turbulence. Doesn't always equate to serious disease. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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I have BCs, but not working...! RT @gooddogz: @Mod_Hilary I should have said very athletic herding dogs-like working BCs #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Good 2 know! RT @LorieAHuston: Loudness of a murmur indicates the degree of turbulence. Doesn't always equate to serious disease. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Hilary Possibly, or it could be that the murmur just appeared because the heart disease just got to the point where there.. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@Mod_Hilary ..was enough turbulence to cause it. Not unusual to detect murmurs for 1st time in older dog. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Q6. How is heart disease diagnosed?
#barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A6-a. The first step is a thorough exam. Often, a heart murmur is the first sign something is wrong. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A6-b. Chest x-rays are useful in determining the size of the heart and evaluating whether CHF is present. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A6-c. CHF=congestive heart failure. More on that in a moment. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
|
A6-d. Echocardiogram is an ultrasound of the heart & can measure the various parts of the heart... #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A6-e. ...as well as looking at how valves are functioning. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A6-f. EKGs are also sometimes helpful. Holter monitoring (a 24 hour EKG) can be helpful in diagnosing DCM. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A6-g. An EKG can tell if an arrhythmia is present. Arrhythmias are abnormal heart rhythms. #barkoutloud |
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DaisyWunderDog:
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I'm beginning to understand how a BC could suddenly develop a heart issue at age 10. Wow. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A6-h. Arrhythmias can occur as a result of heart disease, especially DCM. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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A6-i. In my experience, echocardiograms are particularly useful in diagnosing heart disease. #barkoutloud |
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LorieAHuston:
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@DaisyWunderDog
Yes, not unusual #barkoutloud |
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Keeping_Awake:
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@LorieAHuston Will vets routinely offer an echocardiogram or should we know to ask for one? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Should all dogs have heart tests, or just those suspected of having heart disease? #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#Note #EKG is #OldSchoolAbbreviation #YourVetMayBeNewSchool: #ECG #SameProcedure #NewCallSign #Bark Out Loud |
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Mod_Mary:
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My pup's PDA was completely misdiagnosed by two vets... took her to a cardiologist in Dover, NH... diag. correctly. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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RT @Keeping_Awake: @LorieAHuston Will vets routinely offer an echocardiogram or should we know to ask for one? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Always get a second opinion... unless Lorie Huston is ur vet... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@SuSiempre What does ECG mean, and why is it new vs. EKG? Same with people? #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#NotAllVetsCanDo #ECHOCardiogram #InHouse #WeReferOut RT @Keeping_Awake: @LorieAHuston Will vets routinely offer an echocardiogram? #Bark Out Loud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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Okay, sorry folks. Got thrown off twitter so I'm back as Mod_Lorie #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Mod_Hilary EKG and ECG are same thing :-0 #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
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should local vets do echos? or only specialists? #barkoutloud |
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AmandaBrownDVM:
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RT @SuSiempre: #Note #EKG is #OldSchoolAbbreviation #YourVetMayBeNewSchool: #ECG #SameProcedure #NewCallSign #Bark Out Loud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@SuSiempre Not always. I usually don't unless some cause to think arrhythmia is present #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#ThereIsNoKInElectroCardioGram #SomebodyFinallyNoticed :) RT @Mod_Hilary: @SuSiempre What does ECG mean, and why is it new vs. EKG? #Bark Out Loud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Oh! Then why is it considered new? RT @Mod_Lorie: @Mod_Hilary EKG and ECG are same thing :-0 #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Get a second opinion if you're not sure about diagnosis.. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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RT @gooddogz: should local vets do echos? or only specialists? #barkoutloud |
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Keeping_Awake:
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@Mod_Hilary Think it's just that the commonly used abbreviation changed
#barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Mod_Hilary Screening breeding dogs of predisposed breeds is good idea. Otherwise regular exams should include listening to heart #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Mod_Hilary Work-up if symptoms present or heart murmur #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#NewName #OldProcedure RT @Mod_Hilary: Oh! Then why is it considered new? RT @Mod_Lorie: @Mod_Hilary EKG and ECG are same thing :-0 #Bark Out Loud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@SuSiempre HA! Glad someone noticed the no K in Electrocardiogram. Maybe it just sounded like there is! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@Keeping_Awake Got it now! Can't keep track of all those acronyms! Lorie is good at explaining them! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Mod_Mary I would go for a cardiologist personally. Our local cardio guy is mobile and can come to our hosp to echo #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@gooddogz But we all wanted to know your question... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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Any questions I missed? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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Q7: What is congestive heart failure and how is it related to other types of heart disease? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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Cardiologist=not cheap...but worth it... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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Don't know why some use EKG and other ECG. <shrug> #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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A7-a. Congestive heart failure (CHF) is often the end result of heart disease of any kind. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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A7-b. CHF occurs when pressure increases in the chambers of the heart to the point that it begins to affect the lungs. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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A7-c. The increased pressure causes fluid to leak out of the blood vessels inside of the lungs. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A7-d. The fluid leaking into the lungs is known as pulmonary edema and is part of CHF. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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A7-e. Pulmonary edema occurs if the left side of the heart is affected and causing the CHF. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A7-f. If the right side of the heart is involved, fluid leaks out into the chest and the abdominal cavity instead. #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
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#Lucky #WeHaveToSendNorth to #Lexington or #South to #UT RT @Mod_Lorie: @Mod_Mary Our local cardio guy can come to our hosp to echo #Bark Out Loud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A7-g. A bloated abdomen (also called ascites) is often seen with right-sided heart failure. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
Whew! Any questions/comments? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@SuSiempre Yeah, we are lucky and our cardio
guy is GOOD! Dr. Mark Stamoulis #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@SuSiempre #WeGotBoston #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
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@Mod_Lorie Do dogs get emphysema, & if so, can that contribute to CHF? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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One more "official" question? #barkoutloud |
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Keeping_Awake:
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What symptoms would we see at home to tell us we need a vet check for heart disease? #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
FYI: ecg = electro cephalogram brain imagry in the old days hence EKG was for the heart - now in the new age new testing methods #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
|
back-wanted to know if you know many dogs with pace makers? I know of one, it gave him an extra almost 4 years. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Keeping_Awake We'll talk about that shortly. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
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@tacrabtree oh, good to know. Thought ECG was for brain... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@tacrabtree Ahh..that could be :-) #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
|
My uncle donated his 2x to Angell in Boston to be used on a dog when he upgraded to a
new pacemaker #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
Q8: How is heart disease treated? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@gooddogz I don't know many personally, but yes. Can be done in cases of arrhythmia. #barkoutloud |
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DogHouseK9Coach:
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@gooddogz wow, didn't even know that was possible
#barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A8-a. Treatment is usually aimed at treating the signs of congestive heart failure. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A8-b. If asymptomatic, your vet may not recommend any treatment other than monitoring. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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A8-c. Drugs used include diuretics (furosemide, hydrochlorothiazide, spironolactone), pimobendan,? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A8-d. ?ACE inhibitors (enalapril, benazepril), afterload reducers (amlodipine, hydralazine), digoxin #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A8-e. Low salt diets are sometimes used but have not been proven to be beneficial. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A8-f. Low salt diets are not likely to be harmful and may help so are often suggested. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A8-g. We already talked about surgery for PDAs #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A8-h. There is some debate in the veterinary community about when to start a dog on heart medicine i.e. while still asymptomatic #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
Then as @keeping_away kinda asked: what should an owner with heart disease watch for? Q8 #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Hilary That's actually Q9 :-) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A9-a. Watch the respiratory rate. Normally, it should be 20-30 breaths/minute. If becomes faster, seek help. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A9-b. A good idea is to become familiar with your dog?s normal respiratory rate. Then you?ll know when it?s abnormal. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@Mod_Lorie Great... glad @KeepingAwake asked this... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A9-c. Don't measure the respiratory rate while your dog is panting though. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A9-d. Also watch for heavy, labored, or rapid breathing, increased coughing, fainting spells, restlessness, lack of appetite. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Mary @KeepingAwake Yes, good question :-) #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
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@Mod_Lorie Interesting...how to do that? Become familiar w rspy rate? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
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@Mod_Mary Count the number of times the chest moves in and out in 15 seconds and multiply by 4. Especially useful to watch at rest. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
|
@Mod_Hilary I had a foster BC whose heart went loooowwwwww during neuter . Rescue learned it was within normal for athletes #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
RT @tombshopmom: @Mod_Lorie Do dogs get emphysema, & if so, can that contribute to CHF? *not sure if this was answererd...* #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Mary Good to know what your dog's normal rate is. That way if it changes, you'll be able to document the change. #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
|
you should know all your dog's (and families) vitals at rest for a baseline #sheremindsherself #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Mary @tombshopmom Yes, dogs can get various forms of respiratory disease and this can complicate heart disease. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
Heard that. Interesting! RT @gooddogz: @Mod_Hilary Had foster BC whose heart went low during nueter. Within normal for athletes #barkoutloud |
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SuSiempre:
|
#WeDontEvenHave #3G #NoFair RT @Mod_Mary #WeGotBoston & RT @Mod_Lorie Yeah, we are lucky and our cardio is GOOD! Dr. Mark Stamoulis #Bark Out Loud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Mary @tombshopmom Respiratory diseases may be a good idea for a future chat. There's a lot to cover there too #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
FYI - pacemakers can be donated for animal use at death b/c they have to come out of the body anyway. #WorkedInFuneralHomeForAwhile #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
Are there other questions? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Hilary Yes, respiratory rate and heart rate VERY important to monitor during any anesthesia. Also blood pressure, temp, O2 sat #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
Q10.
What is the prognosis for a dog with heart disease? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A10-a. It depends on what type of heart disease and how severe the symptoms are when diagnosed. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
How about diets and heart disease? #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
|
My uncle's second pacemaker went to the Angell when he died #leftthatpartout #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A10-b. DVD is usually slowly progressive but dogs may live for years after diagnosis. #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
|
@tacrabtree I'm a licensed embalmer & you must check with the laws in your state.Post-mortem is considered biohazard in some #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A10-c. DCM progresses much more quickly. If not symptomatic when detected, can live for several years. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A10-d. If symptomatic when DCM diagnoses, 2-3 months is not unusual. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A10-e. With the congenital diseases, depends how severe the defect is. #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
@tombshopmom - True - TX allows it #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A10-f. Puppies with mild congenital heart defects can lead relatively normal lives. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A10-g. Puppies with severe congenital defects may live only a year or less. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
A10-h. If treatable, puppies can live normal lives after treatment tho #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
@Mod_Lorie - now I am afraid my 17 1/2 lab mix may be heading down that path - really bad cough #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Mary There are various dietary recommendations for heart disease. Low sodium is most common one. #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
|
@tacrabtree It's a "grey" area in AZ. Vets feel funny about it. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Mary Not proven to be effective but many still feel it helps so often recommended. Can't hurt, might help. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
@Mod_Lorie Are there high blood pressure meds as there are with humans? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@tacrabtree Oh, I'm sorry. Have you had him checked? Cough can be heart or respiratory disease related. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Hilary Yes, there are meds that can be used to control high blood pressure in dogs. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
@Mod_Lorie Got a cat on Norvasc....high blood pressure diag. at age 4... he's 17 now... #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
@Mod_Lorie not at this point. Thot she was on her last leg b/f Duchess came into pic. She has lived a good life, she's comfy #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
@Mod_Lorie - cough doesn't bother her, just me ! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
@tacrabtree Wow! 17 1/2? Evry day's a blessing with ur pup...yes? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
Diltiazem, hydralazine, atenolol, propanolol, prazocin are all drugs that used to control high blood pressure. #barkoutloud |
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tacrabtree:
|
@Mod_Mary - yes! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@tacrabtree At least she's comfortable. That's a plus. And 17 1/2 years! Wow! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
@Mod_Lorie Side effects of BP meds? #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
Depends on which med. There are a lot of different meds that can be used and all have different side effects :-) #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
|
RT @Mod_Mary: @Mod_Lorie Side effects of BP meds? << erectile dyfunction? #lolz #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
@gooddogz You're a funny woman... #barkoutloud |
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gooddogz:
|
I am sorry, that was maybe not funny for some of you, but I can joke, I have a human kid with a complex CHD #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
Not that I'm aware of...LOL RT @gooddogz: RT @Mod_Mary: @Mod_Lorie Side effects of BP meds? << erectile dyfunction? #lolz #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
This has been a wonderful chat! #barkoutloud |
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Keeping_Awake:
|
@gooddogz It was funny to me! :D #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
@gooddogz Sure! You can joke! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@gooddogz I think a sense of humor is always a plus. And sometimes you have to laugh instead of cry :-) #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Hilary:
|
Thanks @LorieAHuston, for a very insightful chat! Appreciate all the participants! Wonderful, and thanks for joining us! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
Too bad dogs can't drink red wine... it's great for the heart... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
True for humans, anyway! RT @Mod_Mary: Too bad dogs cant drink red wine... its great for the heart... #barkoutloud |
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tombshopmom:
|
@Gooddogz No offense taken here. Had a good giggle. #barkoutloud |
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foster_sj:
|
@Mod_Mary Could they take grapeseed extract?! #barkoutloud |
|
Keeping_Awake:
|
Yes, thanks so much to the mods and @LorieAHuston for all the great info! And participants for theirs! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
Tho strangely enough, my PDA licks a little wine off her papa's finger from time to time. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Mary Nope, we get to keep the red wine for ourselves :-) How about that martini on ice now, @Mod_Hilary #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
RT @foster_sj: @Mod_Mary Could they take grapeseed extract?! *Good question!* #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
@foster_sj No, grapes and raisins are toxic for dogs. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
It's yours! RT @Mod_Lorie: @Mod_Mary We get to keep the red wine for ourselves :-) How about that martini on ice now, @Mod_Hilary #barkoutloud |
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foster_sj:
|
@Mod_Lorie Thanks! Good to know that one! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Mary:
|
So, we shall say goodnight ! #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
What for? RT @Mod_Mary: RT @foster_sj: @Mod_Mary Could they take grapeseed extract?! *Good question!* #barkoutloud |
|
gooddogz:
|
what about CO 10? I almost gave it to my kid at one point.
#barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
Thank you everyone for coming and for great participation. And thank @Mod_Mary and @Mod_Hilary for the great moderation :-) #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
Thank you to all in attendance here! And, thank you to Lorie! #barkoutloud |
|
dancingdogblog:
|
Gr8 coping tool RT @Mod_Lorie: @gooddogz ...a sense of humor is always a plus. And sometimes you have to laugh instead of cry :-) #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@gooddogz I give that.... #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Lorie:
|
No, no grapeseed extract for dogs!! RT @Mod_Hilary: RT @Mod_Mary: RT @foster_sj: @Mod_Mary Could they take grapeseed extract?! #barkoutloud |
|
Keeping_Awake:
|
My dog's joint supplement has a small amount of Grape seed extract in it, too. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Mary:
|
@gooddogz CoQ 10... heart health... 50 mg. daily.. #barkoutloud |
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Mod_Hilary:
|
@Mod_Lorie: Is that ok? RT @Keeping_Awake: My dogs joint supplement has a small amount of Grape seed extract in it, too. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
CoQ10 is fine. #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Hilary @Keeping_Awake Depends how much. Very small amount may be okay. Wouldn't recommend too much tho. #barkoutloud |
|
Keeping_Awake:
|
@Mod_Lorie OK, Glyco-Flex has even less Grape Seed extract in it than CoQ10 -
5 mg, so hopefully not accidentally poisoning her! #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@Mod_Hilary @Keeping_Awake If in doubt, check with your vet to see if it's safe ;-) #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
@Keeping_Awake Glyco-Flex joint supplement is fine :-) #barkoutloud |
|
Mod_Lorie:
|
Thanks all for a great chat. Hope everybody's questions got answered. #barkoutloud |